From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: RE: When do you prefer frames instead of windows? Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 14:54:50 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3ca07d37-3cd2-4817-a66b-b31be6fca1a1@default> References: <20141125152138825891831@bob.proulx.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1416956138 11565 80.91.229.3 (25 Nov 2014 22:55:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 22:55:38 +0000 (UTC) To: Bob Proulx , help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Nov 25 23:55:29 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XtP17-0000FX-IB for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 23:55:29 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59835 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XtP16-0003Tb-Pv for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 17:55:28 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46632) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XtP0j-0003Pw-EN for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 17:55:14 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XtP0Y-0001bY-9f for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 17:55:05 -0500 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:37673) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XtP0Y-0001aZ-41 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 17:54:54 -0500 Original-Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id sAPMsqf3006149 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 25 Nov 2014 22:54:53 GMT Original-Received: from aserz7021.oracle.com (aserz7021.oracle.com [141.146.126.230]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id sAPMspVV009845 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 Nov 2014 22:54:52 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0011.oracle.com (abhmp0011.oracle.com [141.146.116.17]) by aserz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id sAPMspCP000360; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 22:54:51 GMT In-Reply-To: <20141125152138825891831@bob.proulx.com> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8.2 (807160) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 141.146.126.69 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:101199 Archived-At: > I have seen a lot of commentary about frames. One thing that has > been missing is the discussion of the window manager used to manage > those frames. It really isn't possible to talk about emacs and frame > management without also involving the window manager. "Ay, there's > the rub." And that is as personal of a choice as the choice of > editor. Focus follows mouse? Click to focus? Click to raise? > Autoraise? Tiling? Single or multiple screens? The combination of > possibilities will create a large number of answers. None of which > is canonically correct. All are correct for that individual. Of course. But Emacs does provide basic operations for manipulating frames, and they work across platforms, and they already take into account user choices (focus follows mouse etc.). What is missing out of the box, IMO are: * Better UI - commands and bindings, to do things that we currently do with windows. * Better interaction between the rest of Emacs and frames. The second one is harder to fix in one sense: doing so probably will involve fixes across different platforms. But the main obstacle, IMO, is that few people use frames a lot, and with fewer users there is not the necessary consideration of cross-functional behavior (e.g. how this or that feature plays well with frames). Emacs developers, like most Emacs users, do not pay as much attention to the case of using frames instead of windows. Less attention when it comes to design and implementation, and less attention when it comes to updates & bugs. That's just the way it is, and it's normal: more attention goes to what more people use more often. > Personally I tend to use one frame for everything. I sometimes use > additional frames but only rarely.