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From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
To: Bob Proulx <bob@proulx.com>, help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: RE: When do you prefer frames instead of windows?
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 14:54:50 -0800 (PST)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <3ca07d37-3cd2-4817-a66b-b31be6fca1a1@default> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20141125152138825891831@bob.proulx.com>

> I have seen a lot of commentary about frames.  One thing that has
> been missing is the discussion of the window manager used to manage
> those frames.  It really isn't possible to talk about emacs and frame
> management without also involving the window manager.  "Ay, there's
> the rub."  And that is as personal of a choice as the choice of
> editor.  Focus follows mouse?  Click to focus?  Click to raise?
> Autoraise?  Tiling?  Single or multiple screens?  The combination of
> possibilities will create a large number of answers.  None of which
> is canonically correct.  All are correct for that individual.

Of course.  But Emacs does provide basic operations for manipulating
frames, and they work across platforms, and they already take into
account user choices (focus follows mouse etc.).

What is missing out of the box, IMO are:

* Better UI - commands and bindings, to do things that we
  currently do with windows.
* Better interaction between the rest of Emacs and frames.

The second one is harder to fix in one sense: doing so probably
will involve fixes across different platforms.

But the main obstacle, IMO, is that few people use frames a lot,
and with fewer users there is not the necessary consideration
of cross-functional behavior (e.g. how this or that feature
plays well with frames).  Emacs developers, like most Emacs users,
do not pay as much attention to the case of using frames instead
of windows.  Less attention when it comes to design and
implementation, and less attention when it comes to updates & bugs.

That's just the way it is, and it's normal: more attention
goes to what more people use more often.

> Personally I tend to use one frame for everything.  I sometimes use
> additional frames but only rarely.



  reply	other threads:[~2014-11-25 22:54 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 205+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2014-11-24 16:40 When do you prefer frames instead of windows? Raffaele Ricciardi
2014-11-24 17:20 ` Drew Adams
2014-11-25  8:03   ` Gian Uberto Lauri
2014-11-25 15:46     ` Drew Adams
2014-11-25 15:54       ` Gian Uberto Lauri
2014-11-25  8:33   ` When do you prefer windows instead of frames? Was: " H. Dieter Wilhelm
2014-11-25 15:46     ` Drew Adams
2014-11-25 18:40       ` MBR
2014-11-25 18:52         ` Drew Adams
2014-11-26  2:31         ` Yuri Khan
2014-12-19 16:08         ` Jude DaShiell
2014-11-25  8:52   ` Rainer M Krug
2014-11-24 19:10 ` MBR
2014-11-24 19:14   ` Drew Adams
2014-11-24 22:12 ` H. Dieter Wilhelm
     [not found] ` <mailman.14497.1416867184.1147.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2014-11-25  0:59   ` Barry Margolin
2014-11-25  1:29 ` Robert Thorpe
2014-11-25  4:21   ` Drew Adams
2014-11-25  8:54     ` Rainer M Krug
2014-11-25 15:47       ` Drew Adams
2014-11-25  1:45 ` Yuri Khan
2014-11-25  9:27 ` Ralf Fassel
2014-11-25 15:47   ` Drew Adams
     [not found]   ` <mailman.14554.1416930453.1147.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2014-11-25 15:57     ` Ralf Fassel
2014-11-25 16:57       ` Drew Adams
     [not found]       ` <mailman.14564.1416934703.1147.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2014-11-25 17:16         ` Ralf Fassel
2014-11-25 18:09           ` Drew Adams
2014-11-25 22:08             ` Subhan Michael Tindall
2014-11-25 22:22               ` Drew Adams
     [not found]             ` <mailman.14600.1416953316.1147.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2014-11-26  9:34               ` Joost Kremers
2014-11-25 22:02           ` Subhan Michael Tindall
2014-11-26  5:02       ` Yuri Khan
     [not found] ` <mailman.14479.1416849631.1147.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2014-11-24 17:47   ` Barry Margolin
2014-11-24 18:06     ` Jai Dayal
2014-11-25 17:32   ` Joost Kremers
     [not found]   ` <<slrnm79f8k.a37.joost.m.kremers@j.kremers4.news.arnhem.chello.nl>
2014-11-25 18:09     ` Drew Adams
2014-11-25 22:28 ` Bob Proulx
2014-11-25 22:54   ` Drew Adams [this message]
2014-11-26  8:12     ` Alan Schmitt
2014-11-26 13:42       ` H. Dieter Wilhelm
2014-11-28 13:51       ` Tom Davey
2014-11-28 15:39         ` Drew Adams
2014-11-26 16:37 ` Ken Goldman
2014-11-27 21:02 ` Chris F.A. Johnson
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2020-11-01 16:08 bounds-of-thing-at-point for paragraphs Christopher Dimech
2020-11-01 18:22 ` Jean Louis
2020-11-01 18:34   ` Christopher Dimech
2020-11-01 18:45     ` Drew Adams
2020-11-01 18:52       ` Jean Louis
2020-11-01 19:00         ` Drew Adams
2020-11-01 20:07           ` Christopher Dimech
2020-11-01 22:06             ` Drew Adams
2020-11-01 22:36               ` Christopher Dimech
2020-11-01 22:47                 ` Jean Louis
2020-11-01 22:52                   ` Drew Adams
2020-11-01 23:14                     ` Christopher Dimech
2020-11-02  1:07                       ` Drew Adams
2020-11-02  4:09                         ` Robert Thorpe
2020-11-02 15:41                           ` Drew Adams
2020-11-03  6:00                             ` Corwin Brust
2020-11-03  6:40                               ` Stefan Kangas
2020-11-03  7:41                                 ` Corwin Brust
2020-11-03 16:07                                   ` Drew Adams
2020-11-06 23:45                                     ` Corwin Brust
2020-11-07  1:26                                       ` Stefan Kangas
2020-11-02  6:07                     ` finder-commentary Jean Louis
2020-11-02 15:48                       ` finder-commentary Drew Adams
2020-11-02 16:02                         ` finder-commentary Drew Adams
2020-11-02 16:58                           ` finder-commentary Jean Louis
2020-11-02 17:27                             ` finder-commentary Drew Adams
2020-11-01 22:49                 ` RE: RE: bounds-of-thing-at-point for paragraphs Jean Louis
2020-11-01 22:51                 ` Drew Adams
2020-11-01 23:10                   ` Christopher Dimech
2020-11-02  1:05                     ` Drew Adams
2020-11-01 20:36           ` Jean Louis
2020-11-01 21:32             ` Michael Heerdegen
2020-11-01 21:43               ` Jean Louis
2020-11-01 21:43               ` Jean Louis
2020-11-01 19:27         ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-11-01 19:51           ` Christopher Dimech
2020-11-01 20:00             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-11-01 20:09               ` Christopher Dimech
2020-11-01 20:13                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-11-01 20:27                 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2020-11-01 20:31                   ` Christopher Dimech
2020-11-01 22:10                     ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2020-11-01 21:46             ` Drew Adams
2020-11-01 20:23           ` Michael Heerdegen
2020-11-01 20:29             ` Christopher Dimech
2020-11-01 22:10               ` Drew Adams
2020-11-01 21:01             ` Stefan Monnier
2020-11-01 18:45     ` Jean Louis
2020-11-01 18:51       ` Drew Adams
     [not found] <mailman.5042.1543777897.1284.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-12-04  9:04 ` using setq to create lists based on other lists Barry Margolin
2018-12-04 13:56   ` Stefan Monnier
2018-12-05  1:07   ` Robert Thorpe
2018-12-05  2:32     ` Drew Adams
2018-12-05  6:45       ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2018-12-05  8:00         ` Marcin Borkowski
2018-12-05  8:11           ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2018-12-05 14:57         ` Drew Adams
     [not found]         ` <mailman.5218.1544021892.1284.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-12-05 16:59           ` Barry Margolin
     [not found]     ` <mailman.5186.1543978155.1284.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-12-05 16:50       ` Barry Margolin
     [not found]   ` <mailman.5145.1543931778.1284.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-12-05 16:47     ` Barry Margolin
     [not found] <mailman.7307.1515801433.27995.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-01-13  0:43 ` info-find-source Emanuel Berg
2018-01-13  3:43   ` info-find-source Robert Thorpe
2018-01-13  5:23     ` info-find-source Marcin Borkowski
2018-01-13 16:31       ` info-find-source Drew Adams
2018-01-14  7:03         ` info-find-source Marcin Borkowski
2018-01-16 23:10           ` info-find-source Drew Adams
2018-01-13 15:50     ` info-find-source Drew Adams
     [not found]     ` <mailman.7314.1515821013.27995.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-01-14  2:57       ` info-find-source Emanuel Berg
2018-01-14  7:00         ` info-find-source Marcin Borkowski
     [not found]         ` <mailman.7369.1515913231.27995.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-01-15  4:17           ` info-find-source Emanuel Berg
2018-01-15 18:54             ` info-find-source Marcin Borkowski
     [not found]             ` <mailman.7435.1516042498.27995.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-01-15 19:55               ` info-find-source Emanuel Berg
2018-01-16 23:58                 ` info-find-source Robert Thorpe
2018-01-19  6:22                 ` info-find-source Marcin Borkowski
     [not found]                 ` <mailman.7609.1516342943.27995.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-01-19  7:12                   ` info-find-source Emanuel Berg
2018-01-19 20:31                     ` info-find-source Marcin Borkowski
2018-01-19 21:05                       ` info-find-source Drew Adams
     [not found]                       ` <mailman.7653.1516395915.27995.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-01-19 22:19                         ` info-find-source Emanuel Berg
2018-01-19 23:21                           ` info-find-source Drew Adams
     [not found]                           ` <mailman.7656.1516404112.27995.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-01-20 19:49                             ` info-find-source Emanuel Berg
2018-01-20 20:18                               ` info-find-source Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                               ` <<83bmhos2qd.fsf@gnu.org>
2018-01-20 23:50                                 ` info-find-source Drew Adams
2018-01-21  0:04                               ` info-find-source Drew Adams
     [not found]                               ` <mailman.7695.1516493072.27995.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-01-21 11:49                                 ` info-find-source Emanuel Berg
     [not found]                     ` <mailman.7650.1516393881.27995.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-01-19 20:43                       ` info-find-source Emanuel Berg
2018-01-13  5:17   ` info-find-source Marcin Borkowski
     [not found]   ` <mailman.7313.1515820700.27995.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-01-14  2:54     ` info-find-source Emanuel Berg
2018-01-15 18:52       ` info-find-source Marcin Borkowski
     [not found]       ` <mailman.7433.1516042345.27995.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-01-15 19:50         ` info-find-source Emanuel Berg
2016-08-03  9:30 How to get back to a place in a buffer, or: what is a window configuration? Marcin Borkowski
2016-08-03 11:25 ` Kaushal Modi
2016-08-03 18:31   ` Marcin Borkowski
2016-08-03 14:42 ` Drew Adams
2016-08-03 18:42   ` Marcin Borkowski
2016-08-03 19:39     ` Drew Adams
2016-08-03 21:47 ` Robert Thorpe
2016-08-03 22:06   ` Drew Adams
2016-05-13 14:20 Overriding emacs key bindings xiongtk
2016-05-16 18:04 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-05-16 21:15   ` xiongtk
2016-05-16 18:59 ` Emanuel Berg
2016-05-16 21:14   ` xiongtk
2016-05-16 23:29     ` Emanuel Berg
2016-05-17  1:55       ` Robert Thorpe
2016-05-17  2:41         ` Emanuel Berg
2016-05-17  4:07           ` Drew Adams
2016-05-17  3:25         ` Kaushal Modi
2016-05-17  4:07           ` Drew Adams
2016-05-17  4:15           ` Emanuel Berg
2016-05-17 20:38           ` Robert Thorpe
2016-05-17  4:07         ` Drew Adams
2016-05-18  1:42           ` Emacs conventions (was: Re: Overriding emacs key bindings) Emanuel Berg
2016-05-18  4:38             ` Drew Adams
2016-05-18  5:22               ` Emanuel Berg
2016-05-18  5:36                 ` "First line is not a complete sentence" (was: Re: Emacs conventions (was: Re: Overriding emacs key bindings)) Emanuel Berg
     [not found]                 ` <mailman.40.1463549841.6543.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2016-05-18 13:27                   ` Joost Kremers
2016-05-19  4:32                     ` Emanuel Berg
     [not found]             ` <mailman.37.1463546355.6543.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2016-05-18 14:31               ` Emacs conventions (was: Re: Overriding emacs key bindings) Barry Margolin
2016-05-19  4:38                 ` Emanuel Berg
2016-05-17  4:44         ` Overriding emacs key bindings Marcin Borkowski
2016-05-17 20:37           ` Robert Thorpe
2016-05-18  2:21             ` Emanuel Berg
2016-05-18 20:34               ` Robert Thorpe
2016-05-19  1:33                 ` Emanuel Berg
2016-05-18 17:52             ` Marcin Borkowski
2016-05-18 20:30               ` Robert Thorpe
2016-05-17  4:43       ` Marcin Borkowski
2016-05-18  1:51         ` Emanuel Berg
2016-05-17  4:49       ` Marcin Borkowski
2016-05-18  2:02         ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-03  0:47 Opening a bookmark in the init file Robert Thorpe
2015-03-03  0:56 ` Drew Adams
2015-03-03  2:32   ` Robert Thorpe
2015-03-08 19:18     ` Robert Thorpe
2015-03-08 21:24       ` Drew Adams
2015-03-08 21:48         ` Robert Thorpe
2015-03-08 22:52           ` Drew Adams
2015-01-14 22:12 Info: how to get back from a footnote Marcin Borkowski
2015-01-15  2:42 ` Robert Thorpe
2015-01-15  3:11   ` Drew Adams
2015-01-15  5:51   ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-01-16  2:38     ` Robert Thorpe
     [not found] <mailman.16504.1419019164.1147.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2014-12-29  4:21 ` Abbrevs for the most frequent elisp symbols Emanuel Berg
2014-12-29 11:24   ` Marcin Borkowski
2014-12-29 13:09     ` Robert Thorpe
2014-12-29 15:28       ` Drew Adams
2014-12-29 16:28         ` Robert Thorpe
2014-12-29 13:26     ` Stefan Monnier
2014-12-29 13:40       ` Marcin Borkowski
2014-12-29 14:57         ` Stefan Monnier
2014-12-29 15:49   ` Tom
     [not found]   ` <mailman.16844.1419852282.1147.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-01-03  2:25     ` Emanuel Berg
2015-01-04  0:19       ` Artur Malabarba
     [not found]       ` <mailman.17204.1420330787.1147.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-01-05 21:16         ` Emanuel Berg
2015-01-08 20:53           ` Artur Malabarba
2015-01-03  2:31     ` Emanuel Berg
2014-07-23 21:37 when you gotta have a variable value for a symbol name Buchs, Kevin J.
2014-07-23 22:02 ` Drew Adams
     [not found]   ` <(message>
     [not found]     ` <from>
     [not found]       ` <Robert>
     [not found]       ` <Marcin>
     [not found]       ` <Raffaele>
     [not found]       ` <Emanuel>
     [not found]       ` <Barry>
     [not found]       ` <Drew>
     [not found]         ` <Adams>
     [not found]           ` <on>
     [not found]             ` <Sun>
     [not found]             ` <Tue>
     [not found]               ` <17>
     [not found]                 ` <May>
     [not found]                   ` <2016>
     [not found]                     ` <01:29:37>
     [not found]               ` <03>
     [not found]             ` <Mon>
     [not found]               ` <24>
     [not found]                 ` <Nov>
     [not found]                   ` <2020>
     [not found]                     ` <17:07:29>
     [not found]                       ` <-0800>
     [not found]               ` <29>
     [not found]             ` <Wed>
     [not found]               ` <14>
     [not found]                 ` <Jan>
     [not found]                   ` <2018>
     [not found]                     ` <04:04:52>
     [not found]                   ` <2015>
     [not found]                     ` <02:32:50>
     [not found]               ` <23>
     [not found]                 ` <Jul>
     [not found]                   ` <2014>
     [not found]                     ` <15:02:38>
     [not found]                       ` <-0700>
     [not found]                     ` <17:40:42>
     [not found]             ` <Sat>
2014-07-24 21:57   ` Robert Thorpe
2014-07-25  0:06     ` Drew Adams
     [not found] ` <mailman.5936.1406152985.1147.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2014-07-23 22:12   ` Pascal J. Bourguignon

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