From: Jean-Christophe Helary <brandelune@gmail.com>
To: help-gnu-emacs <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: Where is Emacs Lisp taught ?
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2018 08:30:21 +0900 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <3C06D6D4-2DEC-420A-B2B9-33E5545E6280@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <875zxr7zke.fsf@portable.galex-713.eu>
I am really asking about Emacs Lisp, not about any other Lisp dialect.
If it is included in a course on Lisp as a way to manipulate Emacs it's good, but that's really what I want to know.
Jean-Christophe
> On Oct 25, 2018, at 7:24, Garreau, Alexandre <galex-713@galex-713.eu> wrote:
>
> On 2018-10-24 at 18:02, Emanuel Berg wrote:
>> Jean-Christophe Helary wrote:
>>
>>> I'm trying to gather information about Emacs
>>> Lisp and specifically about where it is taught
>>> (bootcamps/universities, etc.)
>>>
>>> Has anybody information on that?
>>
>> I don't think that Emacs Lisp in particular is
>> thought anywhere, but Lisp is thought at
>> universities around the world, sometimes as
>> part of courses in "functional programming",
>> where other languages might be included as
>> well, e.g. Haskell and Erlang (perhaps
>> sometimes SML).
>
> Until then I heard they teached scheme from college 2nd year in the
> capital of the region (racket I guess, unless it’s mit-scheme), and
> everywhere else afaik it’s OCaml in France (maybe nationalism?).
>
>> And I think it is better to teach CL than Elisp, in all honesty...
>
> I am not sure. Elisp is often to be considered a bad language, but it
> has the somewhat rare and paradoxal double advantage (peculiar to lisp,
> but more extreme here) of both having a simple and naive implementation,
> and yet being quite high level and extremely close to I/O. It also is
> quite much used (I bet its usage proportion is comparable to CL and
> scheme united).
>
> Those are obvious advantages when learning programming, and are main
> reasons why so far I saw stupidities such as using javascript, (damn)
> VisualBasic, or python, taught to students for learning programming:
> easy GUI, very imperative style, ability to do more or less functional
> stuff.
>
> But in reality, what is important is not GUI, but easy access to I/O (so
> to easily develop concrete software that will solve concrete problems so
> to better discover how programming is useful), and usage potential:
> elisp, unlike scheme so far, has many interesting and powerful libraries
> for interacting with the internet, files, keyboard, screen, and these
> are extremely easy to use, compared to SDL C programming, VB GUI
> programming, GTK interface usage, or even shellscripts sometimes.
>
> I believe, especially in first year, what is important is give to
> students what will make them want to pursue their studies, and, if they
> fail or stop them, to keep programming stuff. So they need an
> environment regularly giving them interesting practical problems, and
> making them easy to solve. In this respect, unless using some bad
> language such as python or javascript, differently bad languages such as
> elisp and bash are going to be way more useful and simple to learn and
> not to forgot.
>
> I’d like to see some course introduce “emacs macros”, then some lisp
> config, then progressively teach people how to program without them even
> knowing it, like I saw it happened to some people before (like first
> Gosling Emacs user, beside Gosling himself, iirc). It would be cool.
> We need more programming literacy in general population.
>
Jean-Christophe Helary
-----------------------------------------------
http://mac4translators.blogspot.com @brandelune
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2018-10-24 23:30 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 73+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2018-10-24 15:23 Where is Emacs Lisp taught ? Jean-Christophe Helary
2018-10-24 16:02 ` Emanuel Berg
2018-10-24 22:24 ` Garreau, Alexandre
2018-10-24 23:30 ` Jean-Christophe Helary [this message]
2018-10-25 3:31 ` Van L
2018-10-25 19:01 ` Emanuel Berg
2018-10-26 11:43 ` Garreau, Alexandre
2018-10-26 13:53 ` Emanuel Berg
2018-10-26 15:41 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-10-27 10:50 ` Garreau, Alexandre
2018-11-14 23:27 ` Drew Adams
2018-11-15 3:08 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-11-15 4:47 ` Drew Adams
2018-11-15 8:04 ` tomas
2018-11-15 20:01 ` Bob Proulx
[not found] ` <mailman.4061.1542238084.1284.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-11-17 15:41 ` Gene
2018-11-17 17:39 ` Java-mode Debug question ? Francis Belliveau
2018-11-17 17:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-11-18 12:34 ` Francis Belliveau
2018-11-18 15:32 ` Francis Belliveau
2018-11-27 1:06 ` Problem with CC mode hooks and font-locking Francis Belliveau
2018-11-27 2:38 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-11-30 21:50 ` Francis Belliveau
2018-12-01 7:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-12-01 14:33 ` Francis Belliveau
2019-02-22 4:14 ` Where is Emacs Lisp taught ? Van L
[not found] ` <mailman.2668.1540396976.1284.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-10-26 18:05 ` Gene
2018-10-27 0:54 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2018-10-27 17:27 ` Emanuel Berg
2018-10-28 0:27 ` Garreau, Alexandre
2018-10-28 1:16 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2018-10-28 2:47 ` Garreau, Alexandre
2018-10-28 7:04 ` Alan E. Davis
2018-10-28 7:28 ` Van L
2018-10-28 17:07 ` Emanuel Berg
[not found] ` <mailman.2937.1540710329.1284.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-10-28 17:03 ` Emanuel Berg
2018-10-28 17:14 ` Emanuel Berg
2018-10-30 19:30 ` Gene
2018-10-30 19:46 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-10-30 20:33 ` Nick Dokos
[not found] ` <mailman.3129.1540931601.1284.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-10-31 11:20 ` Emanuel Berg
[not found] ` <mailman.3123.1540928817.1284.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-10-30 20:28 ` Emanuel Berg
2018-10-30 20:32 ` Drew Adams
2018-10-31 2:14 ` Gmane Autoauthorizer (was: Re: Where is Emacs Lisp taught ?) Nuno Silva
2018-10-31 11:23 ` Emanuel Berg
2018-11-02 1:33 ` Gmane Autoauthorizer Nuno Silva
2018-11-02 8:38 ` Emanuel Berg
2018-11-03 12:41 ` Nuno Silva
2018-11-03 15:24 ` Emanuel Berg
2018-11-04 21:25 ` Nuno Silva
2018-11-05 20:51 ` Emanuel Berg
2018-11-01 13:02 ` Gmane Autoauthorizer (was: Re: Where is Emacs Lisp taught ?) Emanuel Berg
2018-11-01 13:07 ` Emanuel Berg
2018-11-02 1:23 ` Gmane Autoauthorizer Nuno Silva
[not found] ` <mailman.3128.1540931562.1284.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-10-31 11:19 ` Where is Emacs Lisp taught ? Emanuel Berg
2018-10-31 14:22 ` Drew Adams
[not found] ` <mailman.3163.1540995758.1284.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-10-31 16:01 ` Emanuel Berg
2018-11-09 9:16 ` Van L
[not found] ` <mailman.3710.1541755025.1284.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-11-10 17:02 ` Gene
2018-11-04 12:17 ` Daniel Nemenyi
[not found] ` <mailman.2929.1540689371.1284.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-10-28 2:11 ` Gene
2018-10-28 2:21 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
[not found] ` <mailman.2933.1540693317.1284.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-10-30 17:35 ` Gene
2018-10-27 18:40 ` Gene
2018-10-27 19:27 ` Emanuel Berg
2018-10-28 0:52 ` Garreau, Alexandre
2018-10-28 1:11 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2018-10-28 0:19 ` Garreau, Alexandre
[not found] ` <mailman.2923.1540686004.1284.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-10-30 17:22 ` Gene
2018-10-31 3:54 ` Van L
2018-10-31 10:42 ` Eric S Fraga
[not found] ` <mailman.3146.1540958071.1284.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2018-11-02 19:34 ` Gene
2018-11-02 20:45 ` Gene
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