From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: bk_usenet@yahoo.co.uk (BK) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Is Emacs on Aqua crippleware or is it just broken? Date: 7 May 2003 04:35:12 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+gnu-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <39d9c156.0305070335.2808773d@posting.google.com> References: <39d9c156.0305042200.1639a252@posting.google.com> <39d9c156.0305060558.7cba26d9@posting.google.com> <060520031302215334%ajanta@no.spam> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1052307530 1162 80.91.224.249 (7 May 2003 11:38:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 11:38:50 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+gnu-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed May 07 13:38:46 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19DNG2-0000IC-00 for ; Wed, 07 May 2003 13:38:46 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 19DNDN-0007Dh-05 for gnu-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 07 May 2003 07:36:01 -0400 Original-Path: shelby.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help,comp.sys.mac.apps Original-Lines: 78 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 211.132.31.10 Original-X-Trace: posting.google.com 1052307312 4129 127.0.0.1 (7 May 2003 11:35:12 GMT) Original-X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: 7 May 2003 11:35:12 GMT Original-Xref: shelby.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:112881 comp.sys.mac.apps:360753 Original-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+gnu-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:9375 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.help:9375 Ajanta wrote in message news:<060520031302215334%ajanta@no.spam>... > Andrew Choi wrote: > > > So I'll not respond to his questions. People asking for help should > > have basic manners. > > OTOH you may wish to also consider that threads like this are read and > followed not just the original poster but also hundreds or even > thousands of individuals, more if we count those who might access it on > Google. Strong language used on the net is not always a personal attack > on anyone, it is just to get attention in a crowded chaotic place. Just > a thought. Thank you for making that point. I had already explained my definition of crippleware and you will find that it is in no way offending. Apart from the need to get attention there is also the need to make the subject line short. So instead of "Emacs: Does the Aqua port have the following features left out because the developer didn't have time to do it yet or are there any fixes for the problems I have experienced?" (I have done this sort of thing in an earlier life and almost never got any replies to it) one writes "Is Emacs on Aqua crippleware or is it just broken?" This fulfills both requirements, getting attention and being short. Besides, I posted this in gnu.emacs.help and not gnu.emacs.advocacy. Anybody who reads the actual post can see that there is no flaming no bashing, but a description of problems along with a question whether or not the problem described is intentional ("feature") or broken ("bug"). This is important to know because if it is intentional then it would be a complete waste of time trying to find a fix. There is far too many posts on usenet where somebody reports a problem, is told that the software in question hasn't implemented such a feature, at least not yet, and then it goes on and on and on mocking about it. If it's not there then it's not there and consequently there is then no point trying to get "the bug fixed". I am sorry if anyone who has been working on any of the various Emacs Mac ports feels offended by my pragmatism. I certainly didn't mean to cause offense. If someone tells me: "Quitting is not yet implemented, for now you have to use force quit or kill -9", then I call that a feature, albeit an inconvenient feature, but you won't find me going on about it. I will accept that it's not there and that is it, I'll proceed to the next problem. Likewise, if you tell me "Weird, this should work, it works for me", then I call that a bug, which is a lot better than if it's a feature because many bugs have known fixes. Again, you won't find me going on about it like "Look how bugridden this software is", no, all I want is to find out is how to fix the bug. In respect of the term "crippleware", again this is born out of pragmatism. You won't find me going on about it like "Look how crippled this software is", no, it means there are missing features which are present in other versions of the same software. Very often this is done for marketing reasons "cheaper or freeware version is crippled - full version costs more". However, it also applies to work in progress software if that work in progress is not explicitly denoted as "beta software", which is another way to describe missing features that haven't been included yet. However, if the developer doesn't call it "beta software" it would create more confusion then anything else if I was to call it "betaware", so I choose the alternative "crippleware". rgds bk