From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: bk_usenet@yahoo.co.uk (BK) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Is Emacs on Aqua crippleware or is it just broken? Date: 7 May 2003 04:01:15 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+gnu-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <39d9c156.0305070301.16d27b39@posting.google.com> References: <39d9c156.0305042200.1639a252@posting.google.com> <39d9c156.0305060558.7cba26d9@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1052305777 23164 80.91.224.249 (7 May 2003 11:09:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 11:09:37 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+gnu-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed May 07 13:09:35 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19DMnm-00061D-00 for ; Wed, 07 May 2003 13:09:34 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 19DMke-00088c-01 for gnu-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 07 May 2003 07:06:20 -0400 Original-Path: shelby.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help,comp.sys.mac.apps Original-Lines: 111 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 211.132.31.10 Original-X-Trace: posting.google.com 1052305275 2546 127.0.0.1 (7 May 2003 11:01:15 GMT) Original-X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: 7 May 2003 11:01:15 GMT Original-Xref: shelby.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:112878 comp.sys.mac.apps:360748 Original-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+gnu-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:9372 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.help:9372 Oliver Scholz wrote ... > I would > spit fire and swearwords in every Emacs related mailing list, if Emacs > would ever get different defaults on different platforms. So, then what about an Emacs that cannot be quit by no matter what means no matter what flavours (other than using kill -9) ? Is that a reason to ask if it is a bug or a feature without getting flamed? You are riding on this cut and paste thing like you didn't read my post. You ignore the fact that no pasting works no matter whether I try the Mac method or the Emacs method. I can't quite seem to fathom why you choose to ignore this vital fact which is the centre of the problem that led me to post here and ask. If I was nasty I would either assume you chose to ignore this because you are only interested in flaming and taking the "Emacs flavoured pasting doesn't work either" part would spoil your fun, or because your attention span while reading is severely handicapped. So, far I have given you the benefit of the doubt and I am sure other people who read this thread have, too. But the more you keep walking on such thin ice the less likely you will receive the benefit of doubt any further. I don't give a damn about whether or not Emacs should allow HIG conformant pasting, because this is the least of my problems, which you would know if you had read my post. The problem which I have is that very important functionality is totally unreachable regardless of what method I use. It's not working the Emacs way *and* it is not working the Mac way, nor is it working any other way. What I am interested to know is whether this behavior is due to a bug that can be fixed and if so how do I fix it, or whether this behavior is because the current port hasn't yet implemented the functionality, in which case I would obviously waste my time trying to find a fix. This was the nature of the questions I asked. Now you should ask yourself whether of all that which you have responded there was anything that could actually contribute to finding a fix to the problems which are at issue here. If you find that none of which you have responded does contribute in this manner, then you should ask yourself whether you are actually interested in contributing to find a fix or whether you are only interested in nitpicking and flaming and if it is the latter, then please do tell us, because everybody who is interested in how to fix the problems at issue will safely be able to ignore your posts. Do keep in mind that this thread is being archived by Google and anybody who will have a similar problem with a carbonised version of Emacs and tries to find a solution will be making use of the archive. They will be very pleased to find this thread with a detailed description of a problem that will more or less match their problem and consequently they will expect to find answers in this thread. However, they will be very disappointed if it turns out that apart from a problem description there is nothing but flaming in the remainder of the thread. > [But even if we'd like to stretch the example a bit beyond its > boundaries: I do not expect every foreigner who comes into my country > to adopt my language and my customs (hey, and I thought, *I* am the > German here ...). Well, I have been working for extended periods of time in foreign countries and unless I know I will leave with in a short time, I always expect myself and other foreigners I work with who are also there for extended periods of time to pick up local customs and the local language. So, yes, indeed, if I was to work in Germany and it was not just a short business trip, I will have to brush up my high-school German, which is pretty bad these days and I have to kick myself in the butt and relearn a language that I feel pretty uncomfortable with because it is a rather difficult language. In fact, I used to work in Switzerland and although the Swiss didn't expect me to speak and understand German, they were always very pleased to find out that I had managed to tune my ears into their local dialect ("Switzertuetsch") because they could just talk as they used to and feel more relaxed. The burden was thereby on me and not on them to worry about whether or not I had caught everything and ask if in doubt. When I was working in South America I picked up Spanish and I got a language guide for South America to make sure I wouldn't use words which are only used in Spain but not in Latin America. People may not expect that kind of thing but they are very thankful if you do it anyway because it shows respect for their customs. Once you have established this acknowledgement, then you can talk about your own customs and they will be all the more interested and tolerant. Of course this can have it's drawbacks as I learned on a short trip to Spain when I found myself unable to order a steak in Spanish because the word "lomo" I had got used to is a Latin-Americanism not always understood in Spain. I had to ask for the word first. > The moral is: if you want a Macintosh-HIG-editor, use a > Macintosh-HIG-editor. If you want Emacs, use Emacs. Don't complain > about Emacs being Emacs. Are you suggesting that if I want to use Emacs and it doesn't work neither the way Emacs works nor the way Mac works I am supposed to toss it away and not ask other users if they know of any fixes? Mind you, I didn't post to gnu.emacs.advocacy, but to gnu.emacs.help rgds bk