From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: bk_usenet@yahoo.co.uk (BK) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Is Emacs on Aqua crippleware or is it just broken? Date: 5 May 2003 15:16:34 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+gnu-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <39d9c156.0305051416.711b6cca@posting.google.com> References: <39d9c156.0305042200.1639a252@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1052173360 10821 80.91.224.249 (5 May 2003 22:22:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 22:22:40 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+gnu-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue May 06 00:22:36 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19CoM0-0002oB-00 for ; Tue, 06 May 2003 00:22:36 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 19CoKD-0002Gt-01 for gnu-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 05 May 2003 18:20:45 -0400 Original-Path: shelby.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help,comp.sys.mac.apps Original-Lines: 115 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 211.132.31.10 Original-X-Trace: posting.google.com 1052172994 29185 127.0.0.1 (5 May 2003 22:16:34 GMT) Original-X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: 5 May 2003 22:16:34 GMT Original-Xref: shelby.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:112807 comp.sys.mac.apps:360564 Original-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+gnu-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:9302 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.help:9302 Piet van Oostrum wrote ... > B> I tried several builds of Aqua versions of Emacs on OSX and all of > B> them exhibit severe symptoms of crippleware. I would like to know if > B> those are supposed to work or are they just bugs. > > Apparently you didn't try the most recent one, the CVS version of the > official Emacs as this supports most of it. I wouldn't call it a crippled > version, although certain things have not yet been implemented. It is still > in development. It is called Carbon Emacs. If you don't want to compile it > yourself you can at least find an installable version by Enrico Franconi > (http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~franconi/). Thanks. I haven't seen this one before. Just how many builds are there? ;-) > So I will answer your objections with > regard to this version. > > B> 2) No Drag and Drop - text snippets > > I don't know if it has been implemented. I don't think so doesn't really matter as long as there is some other (working) way to paste between Emacs and other apps, and as you say clipboard copy-pasting works, so I won't complain. > B> 4) HIG violations - quitting > > B> On a Mac, all applications *must* quit when "Quit" is selected in the > B> applications main menu (the one that carries its name). Further, > B> applications *must* quit when the user choses "Quit" from the menu in > B> the application's dock item. Finally, Cmd-Q is the designated keyboard > B> shortcut for quitting. > > The Emacs keybinding for quit is C-x C-q. Yes, but my Emacs is deaf on the bit > The problem is that if you use > the `standard' Mac keybindings you are non-standard with respect with > other emacsen. Fair enough, but the trouble is that the only way I can quit is "force quit". that's no good. > This also applies to the following items. Quit from the > Dock does quit emacs. That's good news, because the ones I tried didn't. > Quit from the application menu is disabled, but > there really is not much reason for it as it works from the Dock. Then it shouldn't be in the menu in the first place. > So it > could easily be enabled I think. Buyer: "What do you mean, this car has the breaks disabled? Can I break or not?" Dealer: "Well, it could be enabled, I think. Then you *could* break, yes" ;-) > The keybindings can be changed but then youhave to find > alternatives for the rebound keys. No issue in principle, but if doesn't work and text drag and drop doesn't work, then Cmd-x/c/v are all of a sudden very essential. > B> Unfortunately, "Paste", which is now Ctrl-y doesn't work at all, > B> neither from the keyboard nor from the Menu. Bug or feature? > > In fact for Copy you don't need either. > Just select with the mouse (I think transient-mark-mode must be enabled for > this feature) and paste it in another application with Cmd-V. I am aware of that, but it didn't work. > B> 6) Emacs keyboard shortcuts > > B> Most of the Emacs keyboard shortcuts don't work. Bug or feature? > > What do you mean? Well, I meant exactly what i said. Most of the shortcuts just don't work. Emacs totally ignores them. There isn't even any feedback in the minibuffer. I was lucky enough that is amongst the few that do work because this is how I get ILISP to give me a connection to my external ("inferior") Common Lisp. > I can use all normal Emacs keyboard commands. Lucky you! > B> 7) User Preferences - Fonts > > Emacs has some special requirements for fonts I think. This area needs > some work. I haven't found a way to select a bigger font. Anyway, that's the least of my troubles. but, thanks for the link, I'll try that version. rgds bk