Use BBDB for `rmail-output' ?

Use BBDB for `rmail-output' ?

[Xavier Maillard]

Hello,

I want to hack something around BBDB and Rmail. The goal is to use a
BBDB field eg. `rmail-ouput' as the target name for the function
`rmail-output' function.

AFAIK, I do not see anything to do that without a piece of advice. How
would you do that ?

-- 
Xavier Maillard                      
e/j:xavier@maillard.im               w:www.maillard.im
m: 06 52 18 63 43
GPG: 9983 DCA1 1FAC 8DA7 653A  F9AA BA49 09B7 8F04 DE1B

Re: Use BBDB for `rmail-output' ?

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2018 06:56:19 +0200
> From: Xavier Maillard <xavier@maillard.im>
> 
> I want to hack something around BBDB and Rmail. The goal is to use a
> BBDB field eg. `rmail-ouput' as the target name for the function
> `rmail-output' function.
> 
> AFAIK, I do not see anything to do that without a piece of advice.

You mean, if the basic requirement is to make no changes at all to
rmail-out itself?  In that case, you are probably right, but why would
we self-impose such a restriction?  If we want to support BBDB, why
not modify rmail-out to be capable of such support?

(I admit I don't understand what exactly is entailed in "using a BBDB
field as a target name", so perhaps if you elaborate on that, we will
find some way of doing that without changing rmailout.el.)

Re: Use BBDB for `rmail-output' ?

[Robert Pluim]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2018 06:56:19 +0200
>> From: Xavier Maillard <xavier@maillard.im>
>> 
>> I want to hack something around BBDB and Rmail. The goal is to use a
>> BBDB field eg. `rmail-ouput' as the target name for the function
>> `rmail-output' function.
>> 
>> AFAIK, I do not see anything to do that without a piece of advice.
>
> You mean, if the basic requirement is to make no changes at all to
> rmail-out itself?  In that case, you are probably right, but why would
> we self-impose such a restriction?  If we want to support BBDB, why
> not modify rmail-out to be capable of such support?
>
> (I admit I don't understand what exactly is entailed in "using a BBDB
> field as a target name", so perhaps if you elaborate on that, we will
> find some way of doing that without changing rmailout.el.)

I suspect Xavier is talking about setting the output filename for
rmail-output based on a BBDB field. I subscribe to the 'big ball of
emails in a single folder' theory myself, since searching is easy.

Robert

Re: Use BBDB for `rmail-output' ?

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com>
> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2018 11:19:08 +0200
> 
> > (I admit I don't understand what exactly is entailed in "using a BBDB
> > field as a target name", so perhaps if you elaborate on that, we will
> > find some way of doing that without changing rmailout.el.)
> 
> I suspect Xavier is talking about setting the output filename for
> rmail-output based on a BBDB field.

And rmail-output-file-alist doesn't help?

Re: Use BBDB for `rmail-output' ?

[Robert Pluim]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com>
>> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
>> Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2018 11:19:08 +0200
>> 
>> > (I admit I don't understand what exactly is entailed in "using a BBDB
>> > field as a target name", so perhaps if you elaborate on that, we will
>> > find some way of doing that without changing rmailout.el.)
>> 
>> I suspect Xavier is talking about setting the output filename for
>> rmail-output based on a BBDB field.
>
> And rmail-output-file-alist doesn't help?

(why am I talking about RMAIL? I haven't used it in decades)

Based on the doc string, that could be forced in service for this,
since it can run eval.

Robert

Re: Use BBDB for `rmail-output' ?

[Xavier Maillard]

a> From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com>
> Mail-Copies-To: never
> Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2018 11:19:08 +0200
> Content-Type: text/plain
> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> >> Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2018 06:56:19 +0200
> >> From: Xavier Maillard <xavier@maillard.im>
> >> 
> >> I want to hack something around BBDB and Rmail. The goal is to use a
> >> BBDB field eg. `rmail-ouput' as the target name for the function
> >> `rmail-output' function.
> >> 
> >> AFAIK, I do not see anything to do that without a piece of advice.
> >
> > You mean, if the basic requirement is to make no changes at all to
> > rmail-out itself?  In that case, you are probably right, but why would
> > we self-impose such a restriction?  If we want to support BBDB, why
> > not modify rmail-out to be capable of such support?
> >
> > (I admit I don't understand what exactly is entailed in "using a BBDB
> > field as a target name", so perhaps if you elaborate on that, we will
> > find some way of doing that without changing rmailout.el.)
> 
> I suspect Xavier is talking about setting the output filename for
> rmail-output based on a BBDB field.

Exactly. Instead of setting `rmail-output-file-alist' (which is much
more complex since one must have REGEXP knowledge), I'd rather want to
add a BBDB field.

> I subscribe to the 'big ball of emails in a single folder' theory
> myself, since searching is easy.

I am not opposed to this "theory" but I'd like to separate it a little
bit so that files do not become huge (which can be a pain at some
point). In majority, I am killing incoming messages as much as
possible (I only ouput things that I consider worth it for short/mid
or long term).

-- 
Xavier Maillard                      
e/j:xavier@maillard.im               w:www.maillard.im
m: 06 52 18 63 43
GPG: 9983 DCA1 1FAC 8DA7 653A  F9AA BA49 09B7 8F04 DE1B

Re: Use BBDB for `rmail-output' ?

[Xavier Maillard]

> Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2018 12:28:16 +0300
> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
> 
> > From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com>
> > Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> > Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2018 11:19:08 +0200
> > 
> > > (I admit I don't understand what exactly is entailed in "using a BBDB
> > > field as a target name", so perhaps if you elaborate on that, we will
> > > find some way of doing that without changing rmailout.el.)
> > 
> > I suspect Xavier is talking about setting the output filename for
> > rmail-output based on a BBDB field.
> 
> And rmail-output-file-alist doesn't help?

It can be used for stuff like mailing-list or things like that but I
really consider it a pain to modify it each time a new
subject/topic/addressee/etc appear in my flow. Using BBDB as an helper
is much more direct in my opinion. I must confess that REGEXP is not
my cup of tea either, this could explain it.

-- 
Xavier Maillard                      
e/j:xavier@maillard.im               w:www.maillard.im
m: 06 52 18 63 43
GPG: 9983 DCA1 1FAC 8DA7 653A  F9AA BA49 09B7 8F04 DE1B

Re: Use BBDB for `rmail-output' ?

[Xavier Maillard]

> From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com>
> Mail-Copies-To: never
> Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2018 11:38:16 +0200
> Content-Type: text/plain
> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> >> From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com>
> >> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> >> Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2018 11:19:08 +0200
> >> 
> >> > (I admit I don't understand what exactly is entailed in "using a BBDB
> >> > field as a target name", so perhaps if you elaborate on that, we will
> >> > find some way of doing that without changing rmailout.el.)
> >> 
> >> I suspect Xavier is talking about setting the output filename for
> >> rmail-output based on a BBDB field.
> >
> > And rmail-output-file-alist doesn't help?
> 
> (why am I talking about RMAIL? I haven't used it in decades)
> 
> Based on the doc string, that could be forced in service for this,
> since it can run eval.

Yeah but one needs to set the right REGEXP first. Right ?  This is why
I think, for a BBDB user, it would be easier to add a field for this.

-- 
Xavier Maillard                      
e/j:xavier@maillard.im               w:www.maillard.im
m: 06 52 18 63 43
GPG: 9983 DCA1 1FAC 8DA7 653A  F9AA BA49 09B7 8F04 DE1B

Re: Use BBDB for `rmail-output' ?

[Robert Pluim]

Xavier Maillard <xavier@maillard.im> writes:

>> I suspect Xavier is talking about setting the output filename for
>> rmail-output based on a BBDB field.
>
> Exactly. Instead of setting `rmail-output-file-alist' (which is much
> more complex since one must have REGEXP knowledge), I'd rather want to
> add a BBDB field.
>

The regexp could be ".*", and the name-exp could be (not real code)

(bbdb-fetch-field 'bbdb-output-file (rmail-fetch-from-header (rmail-current-message)))

since rmail-output-file-alist name-exp's are passed to 'eval'.

>> I subscribe to the 'big ball of emails in a single folder' theory
>> myself, since searching is easy.
>
> I am not opposed to this "theory" but I'd like to separate it a little
> bit so that files do not become huge (which can be a pain at some
> point). In majority, I am killing incoming messages as much as
> possible (I only ouput things that I consider worth it for short/mid
> or long term).

Killing messages is definitely a good idea.

Robert

Re: Use BBDB for `rmail-output' ?

[Roland Winkler]

End of last week I already tried to reply to this thread, but my
message was eaten up by the friendly autoauthorizer at Gmane.org.
Now I try again via help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, though I may have
forgotten some details I wrote previously.

==================================================================

On Fri, Jun 08 2018, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com>
>> I suspect Xavier is talking about setting the output filename for
>> rmail-output based on a BBDB field.
>
> And rmail-output-file-alist doesn't help?

I am not an Rmail user.  What is a typical usage of
rmail-output-file-alist?  Reading the info node on Rmail Output, it
seems to me that the variable rmail-automatic-folder-directives is
better suited "to take inspiration from BBDB".  The latter variable
reminds me of vm-auto-folder-alist that BBDB can populate
automatically.  Essentially, the idea is to give each BBDB record a
field vm-folder (or rmail-folder), the value of which is the name of
the folder where you want to put the messages for this person (that
is, the messages having an email address of that person in the From
or To header).  Then BBDB takes the email addresses of the BBDB
record of that person to construct a regexp that is added to
vm-auto-folder-alist, just like REGEXP in the docstring of
rmail-automatic-folder-directives.

So: it seems to me it would make sense to add similar code to BBDB
that can populate rmail-automatic-folder-directives.  (Maintaining
vm-auto-folder-alist by hand can be rather painful, and
rmail-automatic-folder-directives is probably be similar in that
respect.)

Maybe there are also scenarios where BBDB could help with
rmail-output-file-alist.