Why there is no key in the *Help* buffer to bring up the relevant info page?

Why there is no key in the *Help* buffer to bring up the relevant info page?

[ndame]

Often when I get help for a builtin function, I want to know more
about it, so I want to see the info page, but there is no key for
that. I can go to the symbol at the top and press C-h S or I can
add a local binding for this, but why isn't there a binding for
this already?

The buffer is read only and the binding of i is unused, so
wouldn't it make sense to add it as a quick way to open the
relevant info page? 
 

Re: Why there is no key in the *Help* buffer to bring up the relevant info page?

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: ndame <emacsuser@freemail.hu>
> Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 17:37:45 +0200 (CEST)
> 
> Often when I get help for a builtin function, I want to know more
> about it, so I want to see the info page, but there is no key for
> that. I can go to the symbol at the top and press C-h S or I can
> add a local binding for this, but why isn't there a binding for
> this already?

How about filing a feature-request bug report about this?

Thanks.

Re: Why there is no key in the *Help* buffer to bring up the relevant info page?

[ndame]

> How about filing a feature-request bug report about this?

I may do that, I just asked here, because it seemed strange that
the help buffer missed such a basic feature, though I think many
elisp developers like me wanted to navigate to info from help in
the past.

And also, I very often go to the source code of a function from
Help to peruse it, so the s key (also unbound) could go to the
source code quickly.

Emacs uses single key bindings extensively elsewhere where the
buffer is read only, so it's curious the addition of such quick
keys did not come up before during the long history of emacs development.
 

Re: Why there is no key in the *Help* buffer to bring up the relevant info page?

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: ndame <emacsuser@freemail.hu>
> Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 20:06:30 +0200 (CEST)
> 
> > How about filing a feature-request bug report about this?
> 
> I may do that, I just asked here, because it seemed strange that
> the help buffer missed such a basic feature, though I think many
> elisp developers like me wanted to navigate to info from help in
> the past.

The usual reason is that what seems like a basic feature to you is not
necessarily that basic to others.  Which doesn't mean the feature
shouldn't exist, just that others may not assign the same importance
to it, and thus didn't implement it yet.

> Emacs uses single key bindings extensively elsewhere where the
> buffer is read only, so it's curious the addition of such quick
> keys did not come up before during the long history of emacs development.

As usual, this has a down-side: too many keys make them harder to
remember.

Re: Why there is no key in the *Help* buffer to bring up the relevant info page?

[Óscar Fuentes]

ndame <emacsuser@freemail.hu> writes:

>> How about filing a feature-request bug report about this?
>
> I may do that, I just asked here, because it seemed strange that
> the help buffer missed such a basic feature, though I think many
> elisp developers like me wanted to navigate to info from help in
> the past.
>
> And also, I very often go to the source code of a function from
> Help to peruse it, so the s key (also unbound) could go to the
> source code quickly.

You might be interested on this:

https://github.com/Wilfred/helpful

Re: Why there is no key in the *Help* buffer to bring up the relevant info page?

[ndame]

> You might be interested on this:
> 
> https://github.com/Wilfred/helpful

Yes, thank you, I found it recently and it seems more featureful than
the built in Help. Maybe the author should be asked to sign FSF papers
if he hasn't yet done so and submit his code to replace the default 
Help. 

RE: Why there is no key in the *Help* buffer to bring up the relevant info page?

[Drew Adams]

> > You might be interested on this: <helpful.el>
> Yes, thank you, I found it recently and it seems more featureful than
> the built in Help. Maybe the author should be asked to sign FSF papers
> if he hasn't yet done so and submit his code to replace the default
> Help.

What you request was discussed very recently on
emacs-devel@gnu.org.

I wrote this there:

----

 Since 2011 library `help-fns+.el' has had that feature.

 And it's user configurable - not just on/off, by
 option `help-cross-reference-manuals':

 1. Choose the list of manuals to search. Default:
    Emacs and Elisp manuals.

 2. Choose whether to (a) search systematically,
    when `*Help*' is created, and add a `manuals'
    link only if search finds hits, or (b) always
    create a link, and search only when the link
    is followed.  Default: (b).

https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2019-07/msg00242.html

This feature is implemented by searching the
manuals listed in a user option.  By default,
the manuals are Emacs and Elisp.  But you can
choose any Info manuals you like.

Now if Emacs itself implemented such a feature
then there might presumably be no need to search
for the right manual location(s) to visit either
(a) when you display the *Help* that contains the
link or (b) when you click the link.

Emacs itself could perhaps have an internal table
that gets populated at build time - at least for
manuals such as Emacs and Elisp.

And if more manuals were chosen by a user (by such
an option) then those additional manuals could be
handled similarly to what `help-fns+.el' does now:
user choice whether to search (a) when *Help* gets
displayed (slow, and useless if there's no match)
or (b) only when you click the link for Info.

Note that the `help-fns+.el' implementation adds
a single link in *Help*.  When followed, if there
are hits in both Emacs and Elisp then it goes to
an Info buffer that has a links to each of those
manuals.  (If only one manual covers it then the
link takes you directly to that location.)

https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/download/help-fns%2b.el

Re: Why there is no key in the *Help* buffer to bring up the relevant info page?

[Emanuel Berg]

ndame wrote:

> I may do that, I just asked here, because it
> seemed strange that the help buffer missed
> such a basic feature, though I think many
> elisp developers like me wanted to navigate
> to info from help in the past.

Good idea. The info crosslink, I mean.

But by all means, it is also a good idea to
report it as a bug. `report-emacs-bug' perhaps
doesn't sound like the place to file
suggestions, but it is, nonetheless. (Yeah...
actually it _is_ a bit confusing
and intimidating!)

But: You can post your suggestion here as well!
And perhaps it is a good idea to do so since
who knows, perhaps someone here knows of
a package to solve the issue, or a reason why
it isn't already there, or just someone telling
you ... you should report it as a bug :)

> And also, I very often go to the source code
> of a function from Help to peruse it, so the
> s key (also unbound) could go to the source
> code quickly.

I just hammer TAB do go between buttons and
then hit RET to get to the code. I don't think
I'd gain so much speed from the s key doing the
same thing, but strictly speaking, I should at
least gain some, and it makes sense as well -
so yes, I think this is a good idea as well :)

-- 
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