Some Font & Face Questions (unicode--2)

Some Font & Face Questions (unicode--2)

[Florian Beck]

I am stumped here. Bug? Read Another F' Manual? Compilcated? I don't
know anymore.

1. Recently I tried to display as much of HELLO as possible. So i looked
up the character ranges at unicode.org, searched for the recommended
fonts and set »set-fontset-font«.

This works quite well for

; Hebrew שלום
(set-fontset-font
 "fontset-default"
 '(1424 . 1535)   
 "-unknown-Code2000-medium-r-normal--16-*-*-*-*-*-unicode-bmp")

but not for

; Devanagari नमस्ते, नमस्का, 
(set-fontset-font
 "fontset-default"
 '(2304 . 2431)   
 "-unknown-Code2000-medium-r-normal--16-*-*-*-*-*-unicode-bmp")

though I am pretty sure the font can display devanagari characters. I a
bit at a loss here. Am I doing something wrong or are my fonts at fault
after all?

2. How do I find out about the possible fonts-specs? 

I build the above more or less by trial and error and examining my font
cache. The funny thing is, »xlsfonts« or »xfontsel« do not show the
fonts in which I am interested (eg Code2000, SimSun, Arial Unicode).

3. I can set frame specific fonts. This works ok. Can I show different
fonts in *windows*? If not, as I fear, can I at least have different
font sizes in different windows, e.g. small fonts in *Help* windows?


-- 
Florian Beck

Re: Some Font & Face Questions (unicode--2)

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 09.08.2007 um 04:03 schrieb Florian Beck:

> 2. How do I find out about the possible fonts-specs?

You did not mention whether you use in the experimental Unicode Emacs  
23 its font backend or not. Without it you need to edit X11's font  
path. This can be done for example in ~/.xinitrc, the script that  
launches the X clients and the window server:

	xset fp+ /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/cyrillic/,/sw/lib/X11/fonts/ 
applettf/,/sw/lib/X11/font        s/libwmf/,/sw/lib/X11/fonts/msttf/
	xset fp rehash

Before this actually can work you need to create the (fonts.alias,)  
fonts.dir and fonts.scale directory files for X11 with mkfontdir or  
such in each component of font path.


If you have enabled the font backend then fontconfig is managing  
Unicode Emacs' font use. This system relies on fonts.conf file, for  
example:

	/etc/fonts/fonts.conf
	/etc/fonts/local.conf
	/usr/local/etc/fonts/fonts.conf
	~/.fonts.conf

Then think of a longer break (lunch for example) and invoke as root  
and in your own account fc-cache – after half an hour or later you'll  
have the .fonts.cache-* files ...

I also have a ~/.fontconfig directory (almost 800 cache files, almost  
7 MB) of which I don't know where it comes from and what it's good  
for ...

>
> 3. I can set frame specific fonts. This works ok. Can I show different
> fonts in *windows*? If not, as I fear, can I at least have different
> font sizes in different windows, e.g. small fonts in *Help* windows?

No, not yet. All windows in one frame have to share the same font or  
fontset. But you can configure particular font faces to come from a  
particular font, be in a particular size or of a particular colour,  
shape ...

--
Mit friedvollen Grüßen

   Pete

How many Microsoft engineers does it take to screw in a light-bulb?
None.
They just redefine "dark" as the new standard.

Re: Some Font & Face Questions (unicode--2)

[Florian Beck]

Peter Dyballa <Peter_Dyballa@Web.DE> writes:

> Am 09.08.2007 um 04:03 schrieb Florian Beck:
>
>> 2. How do I find out about the possible fonts-specs?
>
> You did not mention whether you use in the experimental Unicode Emacs
> 23 its font backend or not. Without it you need to edit X11's font

I'm using the new font backend.

>
> If you have enabled the font backend then fontconfig is managing
> Unicode Emacs' font use. This system relies on fonts.conf file, for
> example:
>
> 	/etc/fonts/fonts.conf
> 	/etc/fonts/local.conf
> 	/usr/local/etc/fonts/fonts.conf
> 	~/.fonts.conf
>
> Then think of a longer break (lunch for example) and invoke as root
> and in your own account fc-cache – after half an hour or later you'll
> have the .fonts.cache-* files ...

I know this. My problem is that fonts I install do not show up in
xlsfonts or xfontsel, so figuring out the right foundry and family for
the font spect requires digging through several font.cache files. Maybe
my fontconfig is messed up? However, the fonts *are* installed: they
show up in gucharmap and in emacs

(set-fontset-font
 "fontset-default"
 'han
"-*-SimSun-medium-r-normal--18-*-*-*-*-*-unicode-bmp") 

works just fine.

But that is getting a little off topic here.

>
> I also have a ~/.fontconfig directory (almost 800 cache files, almost
> 7 MB) of which I don't know where it comes from and what it's good
> for ...
>
>>
>> 3. I can set frame specific fonts. This works ok. Can I show different
>> fonts in *windows*? If not, as I fear, can I at least have different
>> font sizes in different windows, e.g. small fonts in *Help* windows?
>
> No, not yet. All windows in one frame have to share the same font or
> fontset. But you can configure particular font faces to come from a
> particular font, be in a particular size or of a particular colour,
> shape ...

Nice, but not real practical for my purposes.

Thanks for your help.
-- 
Florian Beck

Re: Some Font & Face Questions (unicode--2)

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 10.08.2007 um 13:21 schrieb Florian Beck:

> My problem is that fonts I install do not show up in
> xlsfonts or xfontsel, so figuring out the right foundry and family for
> the font spect requires digging through several font.cache files.

I think you need to understand that xlsfonts and xfontsel rely on  
font path in X11 and do not use libfontconfig.

> Maybe my fontconfig is messed up?

Have you ever used the fontconfig utilities, for example fc-list?

--
Mit friedvollen Grüßen

   Pete

"What is this talk of 'release?' Klingons do not make software  
'releases.'  Our software 'escapes,' leaving a bloody trail of  
designers and quality assurance people in its wake."

Re: Some Font & Face Questions (unicode--2)

[henry atting]

Florian Beck <abstraktion@t-online.de> writes:


> but not for
>
> ; Devanagari नमस्ते, नमस्का, 
> (set-fontset-font
>  "fontset-default"
>  '(2304 . 2431)   
>  "-unknown-Code2000-medium-r-normal--16-*-*-*-*-*-unicode-bmp")
>
> though I am pretty sure the font can display devanagari characters. I a
> bit at a loss here. Am I doing something wrong or are my fonts at fault
> after all?

For Devanagari and Hindi support look here:
http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/SupportHindi

henry

Re: Some Font & Face Questions (unicode--2)

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 09.08.2007 um 17:53 schrieb henry atting:

> For Devanagari and Hindi support look here:
> http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/SupportHindi

This effort is not needed for GNU Emacs 23 (CVS unicode-2 branch).  
The CDAC fonts might be useful.

--
Greetings

   Pete

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
      -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania.

Re: Some Font & Face Questions (unicode--2)

[henry atting]

Peter Dyballa <Peter_Dyballa@Web.DE> writes:

> Am 09.08.2007 um 17:53 schrieb henry atting:
>
>> For Devanagari and Hindi support look here:
>> http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/SupportHindi
>
> This effort is not needed for GNU Emacs 23 (CVS unicode-2 branch).
> The CDAC fonts might be useful.

Right, but CDAC fonts are hard to get, they can be found here:

http://www.literaturlatenight.de/cdacfonts.tar.gz

henry