From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ergus Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Is Elisp really that slow? Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 17:39:50 +0200 Message-ID: <20190517153950.lbxgexrv34m4g24a@Ergus> References: <20190516202327.5cgy2s4kppy3ahxa@Ergus> <871s0yqg2i.fsf@telefonica.net> <3210C8E9-7A74-47D6-81A0-470948E6D09C@gmail.com> <87r28xq0j1.fsf@telefonica.net> <20190517055202.ted62gt6hqcip7xt@Ergus> <83mujlbgjh.fsf@gnu.org> <20190517123551.vumasyoyr5bv5voq@Ergus> <835zq9b4vi.fsf@gnu.org> <83y3359p49.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="70168"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri May 17 17:40:20 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hRey1-000I9T-Fq for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 17 May 2019 17:40:17 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50284 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hRey0-0000vd-Hw for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 17 May 2019 11:40:16 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:54801) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hRexq-0000vX-4a for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 17 May 2019 11:40:07 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hRexo-00054N-QN for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 17 May 2019 11:40:06 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic317-26.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com ([74.6.129.81]:33826) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hRexj-00050L-CV for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 17 May 2019 11:40:01 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1558107598; bh=bCVma3SYwOioovejceqUld8xvGSq9nTKTcev+g7+fiw=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From:Subject; b=tun9CZG03WEjyby18zJYmQlssNKZ7B/7Bi9ll1zGpGRa5m7NVH/N6/KCz/2A5b58cj20r1KZxw528xdAkryiOCX8XrO1fLUvMlGV1xBiHhA9O5uTRjC8nC048ptlLvbYnmCg9c1mG6wN5sCD0Sog53/1Lgn6SwtCs3+WW8uA5DsDYz8LzmyMb2W5FvQ5c6zmDnRrpD/SBAVDrnw7yQfY2H8fMoVffxNimZwbOgHnaLf0LJbGrukEvFkBOehfeioOaXOoI0p7PnKt4giB6O6sY9gOhGtG2eZvSM0LCPv3Wtys1zVFXgZ0wnZQEMN3lUK/r7Np4QEJoB1cr4LdP+I38A== X-YMail-OSG: KNIFuP8VM1nGkb4whELnf56CHhAOBVp4YQBh.g8bL1oDN6yZAGLVfuCMuP5bUYQ SlW_4G1V.LUwueSC4jBemPluas08t3cInptx56MJqtmAaRont_G9tvURYefZ_wB81bq3RigLsFJg KlVRKq1m.MK.2FHEwLPWHFaiqzrbblqZBKNT.FbQVHlKmLQCDxpHvdntQkzPMcq0LH4yKEjp0BUe thGaD0QmedxAs61oXg7AGJ1AoedMI.Rtbxa11W2pVV.M9lmyxmt9MOXVplhlim2PlRMOurNeAvs0 WlbfUXWxPQdrGF1VYsXZhtbZMyGdS7f8oFkF_E_ess5OolNXVc01Ghnv0JqPUOIweOTnWOxDLJ2x Y5wcvmPFkvZ11xbOPyYbTlHRxZoGum_klC5yu_KS2NpG0tT0zzGwXfAxngTiRWEQ968E4QLiTQ3b I3_ZCc17c7lpaBZ7Emqyv5x985Oo8kNAf4NnshWG98BB8m1eRfElsC2aI_cK3ZY0VBu5F1Q94bX8 OJXty.xA9UCWo.mnn1rWBkvGZ6XeaaxsEzjmrYeODouEOPM6RQXXp62OPoozJYmGm_UVhI_YyK0A 0OCodDSQqmZxHAYOOl82GbSWJstiMejzenEIPWN8JFMIHWox3FXXWxTkXIObf2pOhqxd5aO.FXlo OU5xZ8GURhPJc4PFUMOBB3FIfgSz2pLY7EATmzjqPOMUKKRfpPcOYjEJlgCz_7Xsu5AUpnJVnXiX xFJzvPpmr4ksT8_3eIVxmJojWCZxfp1.zAKrJ0ERW6sIq2AF_7N.gn6Agla7Tyq2E7dQXxxHvY3S PnIdhU_K6iN2doU0nn.6Ljf.lI67wq60SEr1BWgA4H Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic317.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Fri, 17 May 2019 15:39:58 +0000 Original-Received: from 84.88.50.33 (EHLO Ergus) ([84.88.50.33]) by smtp426.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID f5386bf6dc0f45b662fbdc92fda431d7; Fri, 17 May 2019 15:39:54 +0000 (UTC) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83y3359p49.fsf@gnu.org> X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.13634 hermes Apache-HttpAsyncClient/4.1.4 (Java/1.8.0_181) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 74.6.129.81 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:120496 Archived-At: On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 04:39:34PM +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Dmitry Gutov >> Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 16:22:43 +0300 >> >> > Currently, we have many more features, but in the IDE department we >> > lag after those "limited" alternatives. We need to catch up. >> >> We are actually okay in the IDE department, with the help of the >> community, even if you don't like to consider it to be a part of Emacs. > >I don't think I agree, as I hear a lot of complaints about the >difficulties to set up an environment for working on this or that >language. Even if all the parts of the solution are already in place >(and I don't think they are), the difficulty in bringing them to work >together in a coherent way is something that needs fixing, IMO. > For this issue spaceemacs has the so called sets. They don't reinvent the wheel, they just integrate the packages that the community created as a different/independent pieces. This is not optimal, but at least is more scalable to maintain and modular. >> We really are much better in that regard these days than we were even a >> couple years ago. > >If so, it's good to know. But I don't think we are quite there yet. > Part of the problems we have to integrate environments is the collapse of keybindings and overlap of functionalities. Just an EXAMPLE: We have ycm, irony and rtags for the same purpose, and now lsp just came out. So there are 3 pieces of code very complex and important but with few people each. Same with anaconda-jedi-elpy, flycheck-flymake. A technical question (a bit out of topic, but somehow related): 1) Why the core emacs decided to include flymake instead of flycheck that is more modular and supports more languages? 2) Does it makes sense to make the keybindings case sensitive?