From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ergus Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Is Elisp really that slow? Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 03:19:09 +0200 Message-ID: <20190516011909.ehbeonvy44jtbqta@Ergus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="174500"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 To: "help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu May 16 03:20:17 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hR54D-000jJ0-28 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 16 May 2019 03:20:17 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46620 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hR54C-0003Fo-1j for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 15 May 2019 21:20:16 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:52867) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hR53K-0002oO-6g for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 15 May 2019 21:19:23 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hR53G-0008E1-Q0 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 15 May 2019 21:19:22 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic305-21.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com ([77.238.177.83]:44666) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hR53F-0008Bm-VC for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 15 May 2019 21:19:18 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1557969555; bh=98cdyfMPJLRVpkx4602rUnSHUkR3f7zxM3Y8V9GJMDY=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:From:Subject; b=DHiI2E7eqw9j8lP6/q2qEgPjEuFPKtT7hMth1ACdmS6GzWZh7ZBcKEYCYc9aeOYFc4oyfvEwibKVHXtWppWQBugZDZzd3bq0PfhHUDtsbZtQC+3Z5nxSmMMqudbEee9nvA3/Gx1xv1hlxvyhZwTs8F5WQDbnTIwICDXCO+2ba0IRSUdvwxgsa57fB9IqlUSyJowxzfknF/tolMbrU9azoofqk2LzoFXC1PgDaAXPtj6EtkTwNmDelCxR/jdLOw47BTYjvaNwgF5fxbjLxhXTyWodwqGWXLzgziXVCGgZFY1GsCgHLgxURw3wv83BpCdMFvL2ath7UVSp3d+Ro2d9tg== X-YMail-OSG: jZuNQcEVM1mY3DdDaWwf7AkCBvVd6hrt0.ttifKOOKWPhM.Tyimh0SkLD9OFD7J 78AmiXlaPu04RE9gDmaKWrdd9I7Id_s5dLmtT5oCh9LYaHv4cgUG_LYhInc7NOXTSXnVwtr0ERMs FckQcCwnLnSiyo2ZKeGliVT0iPRsTuSaklOTmV3rzoj3G9h_JimRSX6qG7R20e1JDjHVgGHSDSFo C_9ZfyT0A94nCfqG3rGO3jTW7nxym4iFv_WlkmV..ahJwSr6KNfF8JO63Ie_Elvh_Jist0N2kAro IsMH7tJWye3PpnzHqp3gB65ZKIg7C8l9Ni_c_etE4QZ6zTRhzTH4VLZBn6WbY6ndXxLl86tp8JGC X73_ugo6LS3A0xnS9tt_aFyFLtir0JubQRoSpwuZqaO5menvhdZeaBbprLNxV41NKqToqi6SvuS1 7ZtrCmmJQoUTOYfRoe_uzLfOyqC56Y6a7i1gEeAeeoHGaxVFsVj6JLVemw8sfqAXOOJCJdz9607X Nz5WJdSYhpiNXAG7AV9hqnfTZpCKzCv5GP_NmrdiwlT8wV2_W71HonY3SwrduLiCR38EuT.AgixA ckWLXVPTj7.dvayzKB8ahq9DPPXnLGfPNvSzNSKgE6R_wC8Fac4FE2O6pVqvhW2n4Cwueafyju57 stO1Y0OcIhi1XCjq3kvOaY8tlejFuPqmCBB7WcFr3otcbTJogPpjwtv8Fsf5wB_kfRSbLrFebOWO wU_sOnq4yjGWPpi6F3juxFb34WmSIn07cuUDJYCjbQfp4HBW3q7vd_Cu2mfUcecHdxHIIbd5Q26s zTgp3dVPwFQOxL9pH008WoE7065Hg_y7_LETA94we. Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic305.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 16 May 2019 01:19:15 +0000 Original-Received: from 2.152.205.184.dyn.user.ono.com (EHLO Ergus) ([2.152.205.184]) by smtp429.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 220eaf21dad42f7ad66617fc060fefae for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 01:19:13 +0000 (UTC) Content-Disposition: inline X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 77.238.177.83 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:120433 Archived-At: >Ergus wrote: > >> But that's the point. The common features in >> emacs should have the same base behavior >> independently of the mode (comment region, >> hungry deletion indent region, send to >> terminal (compile and execute)/ send mail/ >> commit) > >It is desirable but not something to worry too >much about. Better be creative doing more >creative stuff. > >Here is a list of bike tires [1]. As you see, >there are three different systems, or four >actually, and one has an extension one might >say, so let's settle for 4.5 systems. And all >those tires? Does it really make sense to have >one 56-559 and one 54-559 tire? Perhaps not! >But it's reality. And Emacs is also part >of reality. > >But before we get lost in a principal >discussion... Isn't what you mention the case >already to a large extent? > There are already many attempts to do that (cua mode, evil, ergoemacs, god-mode) so I am not for sure the first with these concerns but they fail because of the incompatibilities and conflicts with other packages. Finally the most of the new users that wants to use the terminal are going to vim or vim like systems like spacemacs. It is not because modal editing is better, it is because after the initial learning curve they can just deduce most of the actions withing the schema. Also because vim removed the bugs and inconsistencies existent in vi in spite of many users used to exploit them. So in the context of your example, our tire is 55 (incompatible with everything else by far), but also it works in a special kind of bike that needs a 50 tire on Mondays and Tuesdays, but is the user who needs to do the changes. We need to maintain our own bikes, wheels, the material, and as we don't have practical arguments about why we keep that system in many cases except that it is because it is compatible with the previous bikes we produced the last 40 years and the old users are use to them and they already know how to fix them. But the new users can find spare parts for the other systems anywhere, and specialized personal in the other technologies, and they don't need to be alert about the day of the week... So for him is an obvious choice. Our tire is better, because it is the only tire that can change size 2 times a week, but for him it does not represent an advantage. >When exactly is what key doing something >totally unexpected in your opinion? > > >[1] https://dataswamp.org/~incal/bike/TIRE --