From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Bob Proulx Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Default value of recenter-redisplay Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2018 11:07:29 -0600 Message-ID: <20180429103922929100276@bob.proulx.com> References: <87h8nuw1be.fsf@gmail.com> <831seyt50x.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1525021570 20674 195.159.176.226 (29 Apr 2018 17:06:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2018 17:06:10 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.5 (2018-04-13) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Apr 29 19:06:06 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fCpm1-0005It-SD for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2018 19:06:05 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56221 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fCpo8-0006J1-Lq for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2018 13:08:16 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:40244) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fCpnS-0006Ht-SX for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2018 13:07:35 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fCpnP-00058V-NV for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2018 13:07:34 -0400 Original-Received: from havoc.proulx.com ([96.88.95.61]:60389) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fCpnP-000589-Gu for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2018 13:07:31 -0400 Original-Received: from joseki.proulx.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by havoc.proulx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D0E627A1 for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2018 11:07:29 -0600 (MDT) Original-Received: from hysteria.proulx.com (hysteria.proulx.com [192.168.230.119]) by joseki.proulx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F3BB211D3 for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2018 11:07:29 -0600 (MDT) Original-Received: by hysteria.proulx.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 44FB32DC74; Sun, 29 Apr 2018 11:07:29 -0600 (MDT) Mail-Followup-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <831seyt50x.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 96.88.95.61 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:116631 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > John Shahid wrote: > > I'm wondering why the default value of the variable is set to `tty' ? > > Because one important interactive use of 'recenter' is to redraw the > screen to eliminate display corruptions due to all kinds of unrelated > messages being dumped on the console. When this variable and the > related feature was introduced, RMS explicitly asked not to change the > then default behavior on TTY's, see > > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2009-06/msg00416.html I am compelled to say (because otherwise someone will argue that no one complained about the change) that even if other people don't ever see output emitted to their tty outside of emacs that I do still routinely run into the case. I see shutdown warnings or kernel messages from martian IP packets or whatwever as there are many things that write to the tty. I rely upon C-l a lot. Obviously a graphical X11 window does not have external processes modifying it and does not need to be redisplayed. > > Also, is it safe to set the variable to `nil' ? > > If you don't care about fixing corrupted display on TTYs (or never > experienced that), you can safely change it to nil. > > > If it is safe, can we change the default value to `nil' in order to > > have a better terminal experience ? A better terminal experience is that C-l can be used after several lines have been written to the tty by outside processes. Keeping it the same as with other terminal programs such as bash, vi, vim, less, mutt, and so forth. Making C-l work differently from those other programs makes for a worse terminal experience. A positive transfer of learning across many programs. > Why does it have to change by default? I generally find arguments > about default values to be waste of time and energy, since anyone who > doesn't like the default can change it for them. Changing defaults is painful and frustrating to people (often me) who make use of the defaults. It makes the feature one that is required to be configured before it can be used. Which contributes to making emacs hard to learn for newcomers. Which perpetuates the stereotype that emacs is too arcane. That's bad. And as long as I am here I am also one of those people who didn't like the change from recenter to recenter-top-bottom. I added this to my key bindings to avoid it. (global-set-key "\C-l" 'recenter) ; originally recenter, now annoyingly recenter-top-bottom Bob