From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ian Zimmerman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: using use-package Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 10:24:23 -0700 Message-ID: <20150805170048.18760.318B0B74@ahiker.mooo.com> References: <20150805055619.13567.17B26335@ahiker.mooo.com> <17131863-cbb8-4a85-8470-490fe9a0c0d4@googlegroups.com> Reply-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1438795482 6098 80.91.229.3 (5 Aug 2015 17:24:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 17:24:42 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Aug 05 19:24:41 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZN2Qj-0007lI-Gc for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 05 Aug 2015 19:24:41 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41391 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZN2Qi-0000uH-Ni for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 05 Aug 2015 13:24:40 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:48423) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZN2QW-0000u6-Ij for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Aug 2015 13:24:29 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZN2QV-0004ME-PA for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Aug 2015 13:24:28 -0400 Original-Received: from disorder-1-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net ([2001:470:1f04:51a::2]:52376 helo=acedia.primate.net) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZN2QV-0004Lw-G0 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Aug 2015 13:24:27 -0400 Original-Received: from acedia.primate.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by acedia.primate.net (8.14.9/8.14.9/Debian-2) with ESMTP id t75HOPjM013585 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 5 Aug 2015 10:24:25 -0700 Original-Received: (from itz@localhost) by acedia.primate.net (8.14.9/8.14.9/Submit) id t75HOOKk013580 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 5 Aug 2015 10:24:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: acedia.primate.net: itz set sender to itz@buug.org using -f Original-Received: from itz by ahiker.mooo.com with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1ZN2QR-0004yB-Fs for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Aug 2015 10:24:23 -0700 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <17131863-cbb8-4a85-8470-490fe9a0c0d4@googlegroups.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:470:1f04:51a::2 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:106260 Archived-At: On 2015-08-05 09:34 -0700, Rusi wrote: > > That way lies Ubuntu - an ancient African word meaning "much simpler > > than the simplest possible". > I get that you are making a joke... But I dont get it :-( > Is it that... > - Using use-package oversimplifies? Maybe not right now, but promoting it as the one and true way of configuring emacs would eventually lead to a state where some things are no longer possible, or (and this is the Ubuntu way) they are _officially supposed_ to be possible, but because hardly anybody does them they're untested and unsupported by the developers. Emacs is full of interdependencies by its nature. Things like adaptive fill, global font lock, imenu, work slightly differently in each mode depending on configuration of that mode. There's a plausible argument that this is a misdesign, but it is far too deeply ingrained now to change, IMO. Also the use of dynamic scoping plays into this. Much code was intentionally written so that the way to change its behavior (sometimes the only way) is to let-bind a global variable. case-fold is a classic example. It is not clear to me how partitioning configuration into packages can deal with this. -- Please *no* private copies of mailing list or newsgroup messages. Rule 420: All persons more than eight miles high to leave the court.