From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Suvayu Ali Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: "like other editors" [was: Re: Poll about proposed change in DEL (aka Backspace) and Delete] Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 15:41:19 +0200 Message-ID: <20111003154119.37845657@kuru.homelinux.net> References: <87litcvtu2.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <20111003093334.0bf5d988@kuru.homelinux.net> <4E89B613.9060305@mousecar.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1317649308 6540 80.91.229.12 (3 Oct 2011 13:41:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 13:41:48 +0000 (UTC) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, emacs-delete-poll@gnu.org To: gebser@mousecar.com Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 03 15:41:44 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RAim6-0007eL-P0 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2011 15:41:42 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33194 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RAim6-00049e-0b for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2011 09:41:42 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:40162) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RAily-00047h-AC for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2011 09:41:38 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RAils-0002bG-Qm for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2011 09:41:34 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ey0-f169.google.com ([209.85.215.169]:44359) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RAilo-0002a2-Fi; Mon, 03 Oct 2011 09:41:24 -0400 Original-Received: by eye13 with SMTP id 13so3194908eye.0 for ; Mon, 03 Oct 2011 06:41:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references :x-mailer:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=9g2tSvgoSpV83yiDWSyqnV9lZAMdWNbZHMQZM0W4l50=; b=Y/2tftpm2wBwv8rbMY8z6/hBx6P1FzbkVZcy8JvjIrMDXumq9benUyRvTECIxmEzn/ eGfH04UJmoPknOfdRZNbFjVelRIWTmGykz/I2Kop/gHVLju7M3gRmcqVYd1ECl34hT/j GHvIaxu2IfykGsUrvh797PwX3fkHBdf9D4ASk= Original-Received: by 10.213.34.147 with SMTP id l19mr62351ebd.121.1317649283288; Mon, 03 Oct 2011 06:41:23 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from kuru.homelinux.net (lap-239.nikhef.nl. [192.16.192.239]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 41sm25837747eex.3.2011.10.03.06.41.22 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 03 Oct 2011 06:41:23 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4E89B613.9060305@mousecar.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.9 (GTK+ 2.22.0; x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Received-From: 209.85.215.169 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:82411 Archived-At: Hi Ken, On Mon, 03 Oct 2011 09:18:11 -0400 ken wrote: > Secondly, there are places in the world where people haven't ever > used Windows; instead, their first and only experience with computers > is with Linux. What sense can it make to them that emacs' behavior > is changed simply to mimic some other editor they've never seen or > used? You wrongly assumed by modern editors I was talking about Windows editors[1], you can check out other FOSS editors (in fact they are pretty good for relatively simple use) like Geany, Kate, Gedit, Nedit (this is actually pretty old), text input windows of most file/web browsers, many GUI email clients and so on. And most of the friends I was trying to introduce to org-mode were *nix users already (yes there are non-techie people using *nix, and yes they made the decision without any "friendly help" guiding them in that direction). No need to start a(n) argument/flame-war here, RMS asked users' opinion and I expressed myself. Don't get me wrong, I love Emacs and I couldn't manage to work without it. But the first day experience in Emacs is definitely one of my worst. My opinion was based on that experience. Cheers, Footnotes: [1] BTW, MS Word is not an editor, its a word processor a parallel in the FOSS world would be LibreOffice Writer. -- Suvayu Open source is the future. It sets us free.