From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Xavier Maillard Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: emacs-w3m question Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 08:25:14 +0100 Organization: GNU's Not UNIX! Message-ID: <200811050725.mA57PEf0028104@zogzog.maillard.mobi> References: <87vdvdu4mp.fsf@literaturlatenight.de> <74160b46-e541-436a-a776-c8bd53d6cd55@o4g2000pra.googlegroups.com> <1f28a20e-0c9f-4478-a85c-27ae40ed7fc9@v16g2000prc.googlegroups.com> <200811031125.mA3BPPZu024539@zogzog.maillard.mobi> <7sskq7k4s3.fsf@one.net> Reply-To: Xavier Maillard NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1225953069 8976 80.91.229.12 (6 Nov 2008 06:31:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 06:31:09 +0000 (UTC) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Chris McMahan Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Nov 06 07:32:12 2008 connect(): Connection refused Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KxyPY-0000WN-7M for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2008 07:32:08 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46099 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KxyOR-0000Pa-0c for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2008 01:30:59 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KxyMW-0008So-9a for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2008 01:29:00 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KxyMU-0008Rf-9M for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2008 01:28:59 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=47355 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KxyMT-0008RS-IF for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2008 01:28:57 -0500 Original-Received: from master.uucpssh.org ([193.218.105.66]:56833) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KxyMT-0001pF-G0 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2008 01:28:57 -0500 Original-Received: by master.uucpssh.org (Postfix, from userid 10) id 26B57F3B7F; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 07:27:35 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from zogzog.maillard.mobi (IDENT:1000@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zogzog.maillard.mobi (8.14.2/8.13.8) with ESMTP id mA57PFeS028105; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 08:25:15 +0100 Original-Received: (from xma@localhost) by zogzog.maillard.mobi (8.14.2/8.13.8/Submit) id mA57PEf0028104; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 08:25:14 +0100 In-reply-to: <7sskq7k4s3.fsf@one.net> (message from Chris McMahan on Tue, 04 Nov 2008 08:19:08 -0500) User-Agent: Rmail in GNU Emacs 23.0.60.12 on GNU/Linux Jabber-ID: xma01@jabber.fr X-uucpssh: Found to be clean X-uucpssh-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (not cached, score=-4.344, required 4.6, autolearn=not spam, ALL_TRUSTED -1.80, AWL 0.06, BAYES_00 -2.60, SPF_HELO_PASS -0.00) X-uucpssh-From: xma@gnu.org X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:59494 Archived-At: Richard Riley writes: > Paul R writes: > >> Dear Xavier, >> >> Xavier> What's more, directional keys are one of the dumbest addition >> Xavier> one could have thought off (in my opinion). The same apply for >> Xavier> numerical keypad: what are they useful for exactly ? Is it that >> Xavier> hard to press shift+& (for the azerty keyboard) to get a 1 ? Or >> Xavier> press C-b to move point left ? I do not think so. >> >> Xavier> The real reason that comes to mind is lazyness. People do not >> Xavier> want to (take time to) learn how to do things, they want to go >> Xavier> fast (even if they go fast wrongly). Keyboard (or typing more >> Xavier> generally) is just an example, there are so many other applying >> Xavier> here... >> >> This sounds sooo much like overstated elitism. You may prefer to use C-b >> and C-f and S-&, because you're so good and so l33t, this will never >> change the point : beginners don't, period. Default settings must help >> those people, who have not yet set their .emacs, to use and try the >> software and see if they like it or not. > > That's pretty much as I see it too. And only recently having become > proficient enough with emacs once again I can attest to the difficulties > involved in understanding some of the more antiquated defaults which do > not take into account beginners. It takes a special kind of curmudgeon > to deny that setting the arrow keys to move the cursor the same as > virtually every other application in the world would help Emacs uptake. My only issue with making the arrow keys the default setting is that it forces me to take my hands away from the home keys. I don't like using page-up and page-down for the same reason. I'd have no objection as long as the standard cursor movement keys (C-n C-p C-f and C-b) are also enabled. That is exactly what I wanted to mean in the first place. Gha, if only my english was better ! Thank you for the sum up :) Xavier -- http://www.gnu.org http://www.april.org http://www.lolica.org