compiling emacs/nt from cvs using cygwin tools

compiling emacs/nt from cvs using cygwin tools

[emacs user]

Hi...

having read various emacs instruction files, I got emacs from cvs, got
into cygwin bash prompt on a cygwin xterm, and
cd emacs
make maintainer-clean
cd emacs/nt
configure.bat
make bootstrap.

things went well for quite a while, until I get the following.  any
hints are greatly appreciated
if there is an easier way to compile emacs from cvs, I am interested
too...  thanks!  EU


/usr/local/emacs/lisp/../update-subdirs /usr/local/emacs/lisp; \
        for file in calc calendar emacs-lisp emulation erc eshell gnus
international language mail mh-e net obsolete play progmodes term
textmodes url; do \
           /usr/local/emacs/lisp/../update-subdirs $file; \
        done;
Directories: . calc calendar emacs-lisp emulation erc eshell gnus
international language mail mh-e net obsolete play progmodes term
textmodes url
"./../bin/emacs.exe" -batch --no-init-file --no-site-file --multibyte
-l autoload \
                --eval '(setq find-file-hook nil
find-file-suppress-same-file-warnings t)' \
                -f w32-batch-update-autoloads
"/usr/local/emacs/lisp/loaddefs.el" . calc calendar emacs-lisp
emulation erc eshell gnus international language mail mh-e net obsolete
play progmodes term textmodes url
Cannot open load file: encoded-kb
make[1]: *** [autoloads] Error 255
make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/local/emacs/lisp'
make: *** [bootstrap-gmake] Error 2
eli@cata:/usr/local/emacs/nt $

Re: compiling emacs/nt from cvs using cygwin tools

[Reiner Steib]

On Wed, Jul 19 2006, emacs user wrote:

> having read various emacs instruction files, I got emacs from cvs, [...]

,----[ INSTALL.CVS ]
| Questions, requests, and bug reports about the CVS versions of Emacs
| should be sent to emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org rather than gnu.emacs.help
| or gnu.emacs.bug.  Ideally, use M-x report-emacs-bug RET which will
| send it to the proper place.
`----

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: compiling emacs/nt from cvs using cygwin tools

[emacs user]

Reiner Steib wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 19 2006, emacs user wrote:
>
> > having read various emacs instruction files, I got emacs from cvs, [...]
>
> ,----[ INSTALL.CVS ]
> | Questions, requests, and bug reports about the CVS versions of Emacs
> | should be sent to emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org rather than gnu.emacs.help
> | or gnu.emacs.bug.  Ideally, use M-x report-emacs-bug RET which will
> | send it to the proper place.
> `----
>
> Bye, Reiner.

yes, thanks....   I just flooded that list recently with other
problems, and wasnt sure that this is a bug in this case, rather than
something I am doing wrong

Re: compiling emacs/nt from cvs using cygwin tools

[Le Wang]

emacs user wrote:
> Hi...
>
> having read various emacs instruction files, I got emacs from cvs, got
> into cygwin bash prompt on a cygwin xterm, and
> cd emacs
> make maintainer-clean
> cd emacs/nt
> configure.bat
> make bootstrap.
>

try the unix build instructions:  "./configure && make && make install"

In my experience the "nt" folder is for MingW and MSVC, although the
docs don't explicitly say that.  Also, I've found compiling against
Cygwin results in sluggish binaries.  I use MingW, MSVC probably works
well too.

--
Le

Re: compiling emacs/nt from cvs using cygwin tools

[emacs user]

Le Wang wrote:
> emacs user wrote:
> > Hi...
> >
> > having read various emacs instruction files, I got emacs from cvs, got
> > into cygwin bash prompt on a cygwin xterm, and
> > cd emacs
> > make maintainer-clean
> > cd emacs/nt
> > configure.bat
> > make bootstrap.
> >
>
> try the unix build instructions:  "./configure && make && make install"
>
> In my experience the "nt" folder is for MingW and MSVC, although the
> docs don't explicitly say that.

they indeed dont say that.

> Also, I've found compiling against
> Cygwin results in sluggish binaries.  I use MingW, MSVC probably works
> well too.
>

the pure cygwin port of the cvs gnu emacs compiles well but is
hopelessly unstable (crashes all the time for me) and seems not well
maintained right now.

thanks in any case, EU

Re: compiling emacs/nt from cvs using cygwin tools

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: "emacs user" <emacs_user@hotmail.com>
> Date: 19 Jul 2006 02:46:03 -0700
> 
> > In my experience the "nt" folder is for MingW and MSVC, although the
> > docs don't explicitly say that.
> 
> they indeed dont say that.

I think the docs does say that.  Here's the relevant excerpt from
nt/INSTALL:

    * Supported development environments

      To compile Emacs, you will need either Microsoft Visual C++ 2.0 or
      later and nmake, or a Windows port of GCC 2.95 or later with MinGW
      and W32 API support and a port of GNU Make.  You can use the Cygwin
      ports of GCC, but Emacs requires the MinGW headers and libraries to
      build (latest versions of the Cygwin toolkit, at least since v1.3.3,
      include the MinGW headers and libraries as an integral part).

If you think this leaves the issue not entirely clear, please point
out where's the source of ambiguity, and I will try to improve the
wording.

Re: compiling emacs/nt from cvs using cygwin tools

[Slawomir Nowaczyk]

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 21:19:09 +0300
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:

#> > > In my experience the "nt" folder is for MingW and MSVC, although the
#> > > docs don't explicitly say that.
#> > 
#> > they indeed dont say that.
#> 
#> I think the docs does say that.  Here's the relevant excerpt from
#> nt/INSTALL:
#> 
#>     * Supported development environments
#> 
#>       To compile Emacs, you will need either Microsoft Visual C++ 2.0 or
#>       later and nmake, or a Windows port of GCC 2.95 or later with MinGW
#>       and W32 API support and a port of GNU Make.  You can use the Cygwin
#>       ports of GCC, but Emacs requires the MinGW headers and libraries to
#>       build (latest versions of the Cygwin toolkit, at least since v1.3.3,
#>       include the MinGW headers and libraries as an integral part).
#> 
#> If you think this leaves the issue not entirely clear, please point
#> out where's the source of ambiguity, and I will try to improve the
#> wording.

It might be worthwhile to add a something like "(if you want to
compile non-native binary using cygwin, read ../INSTALL instead)".

-- 
 Best wishes,
   Slawomir Nowaczyk
     ( slawomir.nowaczyk.847@student.lu.se )

A termite walks into a bar room and asks,
"Is the bar tender here?"

Re: compiling emacs/nt from cvs using cygwin tools

[Le Wang]

Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > From: "emacs user" <emacs_user@hotmail.com>
> > Date: 19 Jul 2006 02:46:03 -0700
> >
> > > In my experience the "nt" folder is for MingW and MSVC, although the
> > > docs don't explicitly say that.
> >
> > they indeed dont say that.
>
> I think the docs does say that.  Here's the relevant excerpt from
> nt/INSTALL:
>
>     * Supported development environments
>
>       To compile Emacs, you will need either Microsoft Visual C++ 2.0 or
>       later and nmake, or a Windows port of GCC 2.95 or later with MinGW
>       and W32 API support and a port of GNU Make.  You can use the Cygwin
>       ports of GCC, but Emacs requires the MinGW headers and libraries to
>       build (latest versions of the Cygwin toolkit, at least since v1.3.3,
>       include the MinGW headers and libraries as an integral part).
>
> If you think this leaves the issue not entirely clear, please point
> out where's the source of ambiguity, and I will try to improve the
> wording.

Eli, is the Cygwin make a "port of GNU Make"?  A casual user might
assume so, as I did.  Hence my statement about the docs not explicitly
stating that.  The rest of the nt/INSTALL you quoted above suggests
building from Cygwin should "just work" without the 4 part dance you
propose in another message.

So I suggest:

1.  State explicitly that Cygwin make will not work.

2.  Give specific instructions (i.e. the 4 step dance) for building
with Cygwin (bash, make, gcc, and all) already installed, and without
MingW or any other libraries.  I believe this is the most common
scenario for users trying to build Emacs.

--
Le

Re: compiling emacs/nt from cvs using cygwin tools

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: "Le Wang" <l26wang@gmail.com>
> Date: 23 Jul 2006 15:09:29 -0700
> 
> >     * Supported development environments
> >
> >       To compile Emacs, you will need either Microsoft Visual C++ 2.0 or
> >       later and nmake, or a Windows port of GCC 2.95 or later with MinGW
> >       and W32 API support and a port of GNU Make.  You can use the Cygwin
> >       ports of GCC, but Emacs requires the MinGW headers and libraries to
> >       build (latest versions of the Cygwin toolkit, at least since v1.3.3,
> >       include the MinGW headers and libraries as an integral part).
> >
> > If you think this leaves the issue not entirely clear, please point
> > out where's the source of ambiguity, and I will try to improve the
> > wording.
> 
> Eli, is the Cygwin make a "port of GNU Make"?  A casual user might
> assume so, as I did.

Using a Cygwin port of Make is very different from building the Cygwin
port of Emacs.  These two are completely unrelated issues.  If the
Cygwin Make supported Windows-style d:/foo/bar file names correctly,
one could have used it to build the native Windows port of Emacs; as
things are, you can't, as the table in nt/INSTALL shows.

> Hence my statement about the docs not explicitly stating that.

State what? that the Cygwin Make cannot be used?  See the table
further down in the file, which has these entries for Cygwin Make:

    cygwin b20.1 make (3.75):            fails[1, 5]   fails[2, 5]
    cygwin compiled gmake 3.77:          fails[1, 5]   fails[2, 5]
    cygwin compiled make 3.78.1:         fails[5]      fails[2, 5]
    cygwin compiled make 3.79.1:         fails[3, 5]   fails[2?, 5]

> The rest of the nt/INSTALL you quoted above suggests
> building from Cygwin should "just work" without the 4 part dance you
> propose in another message.

Why would you want to consider ``the rest of nt/INSTALL'' and
disregard the portion that tells what you wanted it to say?

> So I suggest:
> 
> 1.  State explicitly that Cygwin make will not work.

The file already says that, see the entries in the table I cited
above.

> 2.  Give specific instructions (i.e. the 4 step dance) for building
> with Cygwin (bash, make, gcc, and all) already installed, and without
> MingW or any other libraries.

This information is already in the file.

> I believe this is the most common scenario for users trying to build
> Emacs.

??? The most common for whom?

Re: compiling emacs/nt from cvs using cygwin tools

[slappysquirrel]

Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > From: "Le Wang" <l26wang@gmail.com>
> > Date: 23 Jul 2006 15:09:29 -0700
> >
> > >     * Supported development environments
> > >
> > >       To compile Emacs, you will need either Microsoft Visual C++ 2.0 or
> > >       later and nmake, or a Windows port of GCC 2.95 or later with MinGW
> > >       and W32 API support and a port of GNU Make.  You can use the Cygwin
> > >       ports of GCC, but Emacs requires the MinGW headers and libraries to
> > >       build (latest versions of the Cygwin toolkit, at least since v1.3.3,
> > >       include the MinGW headers and libraries as an integral part).
> > >
> > > If you think this leaves the issue not entirely clear, please point
> > > out where's the source of ambiguity, and I will try to improve the
> > > wording.
> >
> > Eli, is the Cygwin make a "port of GNU Make"?  A casual user might
> > assume so, as I did.
>
> Using a Cygwin port of Make is very different from building the Cygwin
> port of Emacs.  These two are completely unrelated issues.  If the
> Cygwin Make supported Windows-style d:/foo/bar file names correctly,
> one could have used it to build the native Windows port of Emacs; as
> things are, you can't, as the table in nt/INSTALL shows.
>
> > Hence my statement about the docs not explicitly stating that.
>
> State what? that the Cygwin Make cannot be used?  See the table
> further down in the file, which has these entries for Cygwin Make:
>
>     cygwin b20.1 make (3.75):            fails[1, 5]   fails[2, 5]
>     cygwin compiled gmake 3.77:          fails[1, 5]   fails[2, 5]
>     cygwin compiled make 3.78.1:         fails[5]      fails[2, 5]
>     cygwin compiled make 3.79.1:         fails[3, 5]   fails[2?, 5]
>
> > The rest of the nt/INSTALL you quoted above suggests
> > building from Cygwin should "just work" without the 4 part dance you
> > propose in another message.
>
> Why would you want to consider ``the rest of nt/INSTALL'' and
> disregard the portion that tells what you wanted it to say?
>
> > So I suggest:
> >
> > 1.  State explicitly that Cygwin make will not work.
>
> The file already says that, see the entries in the table I cited
> above.
>
> > 2.  Give specific instructions (i.e. the 4 step dance) for building
> > with Cygwin (bash, make, gcc, and all) already installed, and without
> > MingW or any other libraries.
>
> This information is already in the file.
>
> > I believe this is the most common scenario for users trying to build
> > Emacs.
>
> ??? The most common for whom?

Let me second the request to make the docs more clear.

I have cygwin make 3.81, which is more recent than any entry in the
compatibility table, so it left me wondering whether it might work.
[Again, isn't cygwin make a "port of GNU make"? Certainly seems
reasonable to think so.]

Anyway, what's the harm in replacing "and a port of GNU Make" with "and
a port of GNU Make (but not cygwin make)" ? It's a trivial change, and
at least two people would have been saved some trouble from attempting
a configuration that's known not to work...

Re: compiling emacs/nt from cvs using cygwin tools

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: "slappysquirrel" <rmfuhrer@verizon.net>
> Date: 6 Aug 2006 15:43:41 -0700
> 
> Let me second the request to make the docs more clear.

When did you last look at nt/INSTALL?  If you didn't lately, please
do; see below.

> I have cygwin make 3.81, which is more recent than any entry in the
> compatibility table, so it left me wondering whether it might work.

The table in nt/INSTALL relies on user reports; if you can tell what
you found with the Cygwin port of Make 3.81, please do.  (I expect it
to be worse than the older ports, because Cygwin Make 3.81 drops all
support for d:/foo/bar style of file names, but that's a guess.)

> Anyway, what's the harm in replacing "and a port of GNU Make" with "and
> a port of GNU Make (but not cygwin make)" ? It's a trivial change, and
> at least two people would have been saved some trouble from attempting
> a configuration that's known not to work...

I think it was done already.  nt/INSTALL now says:

     For the development environments based on GNU GCC (MinGW, MSYS,
     Cygwin - but see notes about Cygwin make below), depending on how
     Make is called, it could be:

and

	   Note that any version of Make that is compiled with Cygwin
     will only work with Cygwin tools, due to the use of cygwin style
     paths.  This means Cygwin Make is unsuitable for building parts of
     Emacs that need to invoke Emacs itself (leim and "make bootstrap",
     for example).  Also see the Trouble-shooting section below if you
     decide to go ahead and use Cygwin make.

Re: compiling emacs/nt from cvs using cygwin tools

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: "emacs user" <emacs_user@hotmail.com>
> Date: 18 Jul 2006 23:23:27 -0700
> 
> having read various emacs instruction files, I got emacs from cvs, got
> into cygwin bash prompt on a cygwin xterm, and
> cd emacs
> make maintainer-clean
> cd emacs/nt
> configure.bat
> make bootstrap.
> 
> things went well for quite a while, until I get the following.  any
> hints are greatly appreciated
> if there is an easier way to compile emacs from cvs, I am interested
> too...  thanks!  EU

Please read the file nt/INSTALL in its entirety.  You will see that it
clearly advises _against_ using the Cygwin Make (which I assumed you
used, since you tried to compile with the Cygwin tools).

I suggest a four-step dance to build the native version of Emacs:

 . Start a native Windows Command Prompt window, running cmd.exe, not
   Bash.

 . Rename or temporarily remove the Cygwin port of Bash.

 . Install a native port of GNU Make.

 . Repeat the commands mentioned above.