From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Charles Muller Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Chinese characters support Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 02:31:49 +0900 (JST) Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+gnu-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <20030511.023149.92589622.acmuller@gol.com> References: <841xz6q3nc.fsf@lucy.is.informatik.uni-duisburg.de> <20030511.011725.71089640.acmuller@gol.com> <84he8292dt.fsf@lucy.is.informatik.uni-duisburg.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1052588011 9252 80.91.224.249 (10 May 2003 17:33:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 17:33:31 +0000 (UTC) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+gnu-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat May 10 19:33:29 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19EYDx-0002P3-00 for ; Sat, 10 May 2003 19:33:29 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 19EYDU-0002Fo-04 for gnu-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 10 May 2003 13:33:00 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10.13) id 19EYDK-0002DH-00 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 10 May 2003 13:32:50 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10.13) id 19EYDJ-0002D4-00 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 10 May 2003 13:32:49 -0400 Original-Received: from smtp02.fields.gol.com ([203.216.5.132]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 19EYDI-0002D0-00 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 10 May 2003 13:32:48 -0400 Original-Received: from db03.fields.gol.com ([203.216.5.173] helo=localhost) by smtp02.fields.gol.com with esmtp (Magnetic Fields) id 19EYDG-0006mt-00; Sun, 11 May 2003 02:32:46 +0900 Original-Received: from 203-216-49-114.dsl.gol.ne.jp ([203.216.49.114] helo=localhost) by smtp02.fields.gol.com with esmtp (Magnetic Fields) id 19EYDG-0006mq-00; Sun, 11 May 2003 02:32:46 +0900 Original-To: kai.grossjohann@gmx.net In-Reply-To: <84he8292dt.fsf@lucy.is.informatik.uni-duisburg.de> X-Mailer: Mew version 2.2 on Emacs 21.2 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-NG X-Abuse-Complaints: abuse@gol.com X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+gnu-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:9534 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.help:9534 Kai wrote: > Really? The HELLO file shows characters from a lot of different > encodings, and if used as such, then it is quite useful. > > > and it is quite often the case that that file will display fine > > despite the fact that CJK won't work in utf-8 > > There are known problems with CJK support in UTF-8, but the situation > has improved greatly in the development version of Emacs. I know that, and I am not contesting that point. But again, the HELLO file is not a utf-8 file. It is also not a form of JIS or other East Asian encoding, so the fact that one can display multilingual scripts by opening that file does not mean that they will be able to display them in Big5, JIS, or whatever. If you check the archives for "utf-8+cjk", you will see that we have had a few threads in the past year that dealt with problems trying to display CJK and other international scripts, in which the advice was given to look at the Hello file. As a person who has been working with international scripts and utf-8 for a number years, I know firsthand the ability to be able to read this file doesn't usually mean much. People who recommend checking this file are usually people who don't use double-byte East Asian languages. > The file is in a relevant encoding: it's the encoding used by Emacs > internally. (Or rather, an encoding close to the internal encoding.) Relevant to whom? It's not in utf-8, right? Most of the problems people have been having with CJK display in Emacs (at least until the appearance of 21.3.5) have to do with problems getting utf-8 to work, and the hello file will still display even when these problems are not resolved. No one that I know who works in XML or with East Asian international scripts works in utf-7, so while that encoding format may be relevant for those who are programming Emacs internally, it is not relevant for anyone using Emacs to do multilingual XML or HTML publication, because no one uses it. That's what I mean when I say "not relevant." It is not my purpose to badmouth Emacs handling of Unicode. I know that people have been working very hard to resolve these problems, and from what I have been hearing, once everyone has copies of 21.3.5 installed with the right Mule setup, this will be a past issue. Hopefully, somewhere along the line, the Hello file will also graduate to utf-8. Regards, Chuck --------------------------- Charles Muller Faculty of Humanities, Toyo Gakuen University Digital Dictionary of Buddhism and CJKV-English Dictionary [http://www.acmuller.net] H-Buddhism List Editor [http://www2.h-net.msu.edu/~buddhism/] Mobile Phone: 090-9310-1787