From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Jean-Christophe Helary Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Emacs as a translator's tool Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2020 11:58:08 +0900 Message-ID: <1F4831E2-7BE4-43D9-8C62-FD7F2EA8A4DB@traduction-libre.org> References: <871rn35lqc.fsf@mbork.pl> <87zh9r45ad.fsf@mbork.pl> <87h7vz2m5g.fsf@ebih.ebihd> <87d06k4rmg.fsf@mbork.pl> <87eeqzmanl.fsf@ebih.ebihd> <877dwmoboq.fsf@mbork.pl> <87bllypckg.fsf@ebih.ebihd> <17720D3D-5DBA-4147-B495-FB24AC1A040B@traduction-libre.org> <877dwmpbef.fsf@ebih.ebihd> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="130308"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Emanuel Berg Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Jun 05 04:58:47 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jh2ZA-000Xk1-Vx for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 05 Jun 2020 04:58:44 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48198 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jh2ZA-0004PS-2C for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 04 Jun 2020 22:58:44 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:33104) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jh2Yl-0004P6-2N for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 04 Jun 2020 22:58:19 -0400 Original-Received: from relay3-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.195]:46661) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jh2Yj-0002Gq-DQ for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 04 Jun 2020 22:58:18 -0400 X-Originating-IP: 210.160.37.44 Original-Received: from [10.254.2.137] (unknown [210.160.37.44]) (Authenticated sender: jean.christophe.helary@traduction-libre.org) by relay3-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 00B3560003; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 02:58:12 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <877dwmpbef.fsf@ebih.ebihd> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.70.183.195; envelope-from=jean.christophe.helary@traduction-libre.org; helo=relay3-d.mail.gandi.net X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/06/04 22:58:14 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:123232 Archived-At: > On Jun 5, 2020, at 10:08, Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU = Emacs text editor wrote: >=20 > Jean-Christophe Helary wrote: >=20 >>> ... idiomatic translations of phrases isn't >>> a major issue? >>=20 >> No, because that is exactly what the translator is >> here for. >=20 > OK, so translators are not allowed to use tools? >=20 > What about dictionaries, are you still allowed to > use them? >=20 >> What we are discussing here is how the computer is >> helping the translator for all the other parts that >> require efficiency. >=20 > I see, for other parts, it is allowed! I'm not sure I understand where you're drifting. Idiomatic translations can be helped with tools, but as we see with MT, = even the best tools still fail to produce correct idiomatic = translations. Which is the reason why I wrote "that is exactly what the translator is = here for", meaning that the translator is here to ensure that the = translation is idiomatic. The tool can help the translator to produce a string that the translator = will validate as idiomatic. --=20 Jean-Christophe Helary @brandelune http://mac4translators.blogspot.com