From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ajanta Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Software/HD ecology Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 18:29:51 GMT Organization: Prodigy Internet http://www.prodigy.com Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+gnu-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <171220021132381961%ajanta@no.spam> References: <041220020952400758%ajanta@no.spam> <56cfb0e3.0212041458.5eab182a@posting.google.com> <061220020416350201%ajanta@no.spam> <071220021155280606%ajanta@no.spam> <5ld6obj8il.fsf@rum.cs.yale.edu> <091220021652087216%ajanta@no.spam> <111220021101520860%ajanta@no.spam> <111220021253524057%ajanta@no.spam> <5l65u0i8zj.fsf@rum.cs.yale.edu> <111220022053507599%ajanta@no.spam> <87u1hjdwta.fsf@hurd.crasseux.com> <121220021324043990%ajanta@no.spam> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1040146756 1218 80.91.224.249 (17 Dec 2002 17:39:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 17:39:16 +0000 (UTC) Return-path: Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18OLgE-0000IZ-00 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2002 18:38:54 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 18OLdO-0007hp-01 for gnu-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 17 Dec 2002 12:35:58 -0500 Original-Path: shelby.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!cyclone.bc.net!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!newshub.sdsu.edu!news-xfer.cox.net!news.astraweb.com!news-small.astraweb.com!prodigy.com!newsmst01.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssrv26.news.prodigy.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.apps,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.text.tex,gnu.emacs.help Mail-Copies-To: nobody User-Agent: Thoth/1.5.10 (Carbon/OS X) Original-Lines: 61 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.37.188.63 Original-X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net Original-X-Trace: newssrv26.news.prodigy.com 1040149791 ST000 67.37.188.63 (Tue, 17 Dec 2002 12:29:51 CST) Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 12:29:51 CST X-UserInfo1: S[OQBYCDYBSWSRP[KBJVOFXBWR\HPCTL@XT^OBPLAH[\RZ]CDVW[AKK[J\]^HVKHG^EWZHBLO^[\NH_AZFWGN^\DHNVMX_DHHX[FSQKBOTS@@BP^]C@RHS_AGDDC[AJM_T[GZNRNZAY]GNCPBDYKOLK^_CZFWPGHZIXW@C[AFKBBQS@E@DAZ]VDFUNTQQ]FN Original-Xref: shelby.stanford.edu comp.sys.mac.apps:349128 gnu.emacs.help:108223 Original-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+gnu-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:4752 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.help:4752 Lee Sau Dan wrote: > Why in the first place would the program NEED to install files all > over the place? It doesn't, shouldn't, but many do. > Unix is well designed. Most (if not all) GNU programs can be > configured to be installed anywhere... The complaint in this sub-thread is that many times programs come with bad default choices. Often, to compound the problem, there is no uninstall. This is not about Unix, but people who write, manage, or distribute programs. I used the term unix to refer to the community and its culture, not the OS. > To uninstall the application, simply "rm -rf /usr/local/foobar" and > you're done! Here is the example a poster gave from his system. There may or may not be other emacs related named files there, these are just the matches on the *name* emacs: % find /usr -name emacs -print /usr/bin/emacs /usr/info/emacs /usr/libexec/emacs /usr/local/bin/emacs /usr/share/emacs /usr/share/info/emacs To duplicate the convenience implied in your suggestion, one would have to delete /usr. > Anyway, nowadays, people almost always use package managers, such as > RPM in RedHat and SuSE. To have package managers which work on only one or two sub-flavors or, as in Fink's case, only on the software downloaded from one source is really not such a hot solution (though a welcome "patch"). What is needed: (1) To change the culture, so that every program comes with a safe and complete uninstall option. (2) To empower the user, so he/she can easily discover what a particular file on his/her computer is for, and where are all the files related to the package xyz. I think you want to be able to specify the source (GNU or FSF), name (emacs), and version (27.5) with intelligent defaults, like all versions when none is specified. > That explains why the issue you raised out is a non-problem for Unix. > Unix has been supporting long file names for a long time. I haven't come across many programs with long descriptive file names. However, I'll avoid this direction because I view it as less relevant. I want precise and reliable tools to know what a file was for. I don't want to guess such things from names. A