From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Anil Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Software/HD ecology Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 05:55:13 GMT Organization: Prodigy Internet http://www.prodigy.com Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+gnu-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <161220022257560023%anil@null.invalid> References: <041220020952400758%ajanta@no.spam> <56cfb0e3.0212041458.5eab182a@posting.google.com> <061220020416350201%ajanta@no.spam> <071220021155280606%ajanta@no.spam> <5ld6obj8il.fsf@rum.cs.yale.edu> <091220021652087216%ajanta@no.spam> <111220021101520860%ajanta@no.spam> <111220021253524057%ajanta@no.spam> <5l65u0i8zj.fsf@rum.cs.yale.edu> <111220022053507599%ajanta@no.spam> <87u1hjdwta.fsf@hurd.crasseux.com> <121220021419243187%anil@null.invalid> <161220021454522181%ajanta@no.spam> <5llm2pekxq.fsf@rum.cs.yale.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1040101259 29043 80.91.224.249 (17 Dec 2002 05:00:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 05:00:59 +0000 (UTC) Return-path: Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18O9qk-0007YI-00 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2002 06:00:58 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 18O9qP-0000RG-00 for gnu-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 17 Dec 2002 00:00:37 -0500 Original-Path: shelby.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!prodigy.com!prodigy.com!newsmst01.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssrv26.news.prodigy.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.apps,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.text.tex,gnu.emacs.help Mail-Copies-To: nobody User-Agent: Thoth/1.5.10 (Carbon/OS X) Original-Lines: 47 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.37.226.180 Original-X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net Original-X-Trace: newssrv26.news.prodigy.com 1040104513 ST000 67.37.226.180 (Mon, 16 Dec 2002 23:55:13 CST) Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 23:55:13 CST X-UserInfo1: O@YORZWDARRAB]\YJJID]_\@VR]^@B@MCPWZKB]MPXHNDQUBLNTC@AWZWDXZXQ[K\FFSKCVM@F_N_DOBWVWG__LG@VVOIPLIGX\\BU_B@\P\PFX\B[APHTWAHDCKJF^NHD[YJAZMCY_CWG[SX\Y]^KC\HSZRWSWKGAY_PC[BQ[BXAS\F\\@DMTLFZFUE@\VL Original-Xref: shelby.stanford.edu comp.sys.mac.apps:349098 gnu.emacs.help:108200 Original-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+gnu-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:4729 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.help:4729 Stefan Monnier wrote: > >>>>> "Ajanta" == Ajanta writes: > > When I run a command like "ls -l file" I can get a lot of information > > about a file's type, size, ownership, date created/modified. Whether > > that qualifies as a "log" to somebody or not is a rather dull semantic > > issue. The system does store and update information on files. > > These kinds of info are more akin to `state'. One major difference between > `state' and `log' is that a `log' is `append only'. The info you describe > is always kept uptodate but you can't know what it was before the last > modification, so it's very clearly not a `log'. I worry about many things, but this would be rather low on my list. If something came with emacs, it remains with emacs. It doesn't become a MS Office file! What *are* you talking about? > Maybe it's dull, but it's not subtle. If you don't know what word to use, > just use "info" or "thing" so you won't mislead readers. I apologize. I didn't mean to mislead anyone. When I said unix logs information, a few posts above, I was writing English and hoped people would read it as English. How exactly were you misled, though? Your suggestion is questionable too: "info" could also have technical meaning to someone. Probably does. I see no alternative to relying on other people's common sense to read English as English. By the way, you had claimed elsewhere that Emacs files are well-localized in the file systems. You didn't respond to my post that on my system I find (just for the *name* emacs, not necessarily all emacs-specific files): /usr/bin/emacs /usr/info/emacs /usr/libexec/emacs /usr/local/bin/emacs /usr/share/emacs /usr/share/info/emacs The problem is not one program, emacs or something else. The problem is fifty or hundred programs, each installing itself in a few places, each doing so just a little differently. Then, without a standard "uninstall" culture (which, someone did assure us, is becoming common), we have a recipe for confusion. Anil