From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: S Boucher Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: "like other editors" [was: Re: Poll about proposed change in DEL (aka Backspace) and Delete] Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 10:51:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1317837094.6189.YahooMailNeo@web161614.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <87litcvtu2.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <20111003093334.0bf5d988@kuru.homelinux.net> <4E89B613.9060305@mousecar.com> <1317749236.13827.YahooMailNeo@web161614.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E8C9349.7040000@arlsoft.com> Reply-To: S Boucher NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1317837119 4512 80.91.229.12 (5 Oct 2011 17:51:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 17:51:59 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" , "rms@gnu.org" To: MBR Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 05 19:51:55 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RBVdL-0005zl-0Q for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 05 Oct 2011 19:51:55 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38665 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RBVdK-0002Sv-Ca for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 05 Oct 2011 13:51:54 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:51719) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RBVd6-0002JV-9y for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Oct 2011 13:51:42 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RBVd2-0004vx-U9 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Oct 2011 13:51:39 -0400 Original-Received: from nm27.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com ([98.139.212.186]:22953) by eggs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RBVd1-0004uB-DB for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Oct 2011 13:51:36 -0400 Original-Received: from [98.139.212.151] by nm27.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Oct 2011 17:51:34 -0000 Original-Received: from [98.139.212.233] by tm8.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Oct 2011 17:51:34 -0000 Original-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1042.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Oct 2011 17:51:34 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 195803.68923.bm@omp1042.mail.bf1.yahoo.com Original-Received: (qmail 18413 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Oct 2011 17:51:34 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1317837094; bh=G1cVteBcXV4x3hvCBhgrVhIjbe88DxsS3fgz9an6j9g=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=inDmudfRAFGEA6GHEbb7DKnCoL8asI8moVm+DVoWOE8ply1Gt1XXj9Uu/1MUPPh/C/YZCmvwg21W4y3BPieg6no8E1bHm0AUScNlaL1dc0rlvSnpR1uc3pjuBDBaypfA3cCpGJWr28SeCFgCOUqmpzqglcF6oIDjbwk0b8LGis8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=jL96PjgC7tNCJrVHqGd3oKten3cjJOnhmAL4KAfoVh2LhajkCAWfVBC6sxeahRuyic2BOTBlJojxFR158OBy+rucSWO8F/C5zVuAQqi02UYyWcItyIlBe1MMGVTONXgvfjUxe4XXGDdIUNxOzYwkKOZmQawZa643cwq8lJn5qiY=; X-YMail-OSG: fb4tOPMVM1m9PCJ33zKWFLBakSVvHh.e08yjjqzAXDWFioj 8cX7a9LadYl0K24GMwh1CqKRDSGepDNTyudMVi26FdjU_XejG8ZhjVBXCwPh t2osnnCcqt79.k9umS1qtmAOeXAH1dIk7j6k5BjtDlQGRscNmgLWYqi.Shls RHRErwy7r8ePEHlhMIknDZOnYyzMI4pdjWPUtnzRQfsHnpbeGCWNixhtALvA iyitoPD_EC0dtKr29QF3U52WX9gDmTXrdsYLIwzQPPWrFdr7oHnv_Ez6unul EjRdJwoZqh_9WY0B6Lr5luf98ywmK0XchIE..WQqm..V8aPqnpTZcQUxnYO8 s7PCuXJFUIVFRaCSpbdTBWzHi56UfjWEs.qZJw1VWPfnKYXCqyAtA892ULLb joLAELqI9ZjGHjBxOJGR6FhQyv9j1WIWvqFvcfRVeIdqUYYqGyYwkL6LnNaP t Original-Received: from [209.5.112.166] by web161614.mail.bf1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 05 Oct 2011 10:51:34 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.114.317681 In-Reply-To: <4E8C9349.7040000@arlsoft.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 98.139.212.186 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:82484 Archived-At: =0A>=0A>=A0 But if the keystroke assignments have changed, my fingers are c= onstantly tripping over each other, which is distracting enough that it mak= es it hard to concentrate on debugging the problem I'm there to fix in the = first place.=0A=0A=0AMy configs are so big that no matter what, it's going = to be a bit clumsy when I'm using emacs without all my own cruft.=A0 Heck, = there's the reverse scenario: someone I go help has his own cruft that make= s emacs non-standard.=0A=0A=0AThe key point is whether making it easier for= non-hacker should take precedence over making it easier for hackers.=A0 I = think we should make it easier for non-hackers.=A0 In the case of the menus= , it therefore made more sense to leave them enabled. =0A=0A=0AWhen it come= s down to a line or 2 in .emacs, I think the burden should rest on hackers.= =0A=0AIn the case of the present proposed change, I wouldn't even offer the= choice to have the old behavior to keep the code easier to maintain. Anyon= e will get over this after at most a day or 2 of !@#$!@$.=A0 And then, you = won't have a problem when you go help a friend.=0A=0AReminds me of years ag= o when someone changed all the keybindings of Emacs to match what he was us= ed too on some other Emacs.=A0 Just get used to what the is defined.=A0 It'= s not the end of the world (at least in the case of the present proposal).= =A0 The odd times when a binding changes in Emacs, I just get used to it.= =0A=0AI don't mean to insult anyone, but there's a ridiculous amount of obt= useness displayed in this thread over changes which any reasonably intellig= ent person will get used to quickly, without adverse effect.=A0 The amount = of time spent arguing in this thread is more than it would take anyone to g= et used to the change.=0A=0AIt's not like we're talking about moving C-x to= C-^.=0A