From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: S Boucher Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Poll about proposed change in DEL (aka Backspace) and Delete Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 10:38:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1317749925.66315.YahooMailNeo@web161610.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <87litcvtu2.fsf@stupidchicken.com> Reply-To: S Boucher NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1317749944 15649 80.91.229.12 (4 Oct 2011 17:39:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 17:39:04 +0000 (UTC) To: "emacs-delete-poll@gnu.org" , "info-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" , "help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 04 19:39:00 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RB8xG-0004BR-U2 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 04 Oct 2011 19:38:59 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47286 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RB8xB-0007Zm-Dh for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 04 Oct 2011 13:38:53 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:43846) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RB8x7-0007Zh-B2 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Oct 2011 13:38:50 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RB8x5-00080J-34 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Oct 2011 13:38:49 -0400 Original-Received: from nm7.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com ([98.139.212.166]:26599) by eggs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RB8x4-0007zw-Um for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Oct 2011 13:38:47 -0400 Original-Received: from [98.139.212.144] by nm7.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Oct 2011 17:38:45 -0000 Original-Received: from [98.139.212.216] by tm1.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Oct 2011 17:38:45 -0000 Original-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1025.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Oct 2011 17:38:45 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 882424.57977.bm@omp1025.mail.bf1.yahoo.com Original-Received: (qmail 79975 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Oct 2011 17:38:45 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1317749925; bh=ftkF77U1a+V8NpSvceU4T6jHmIU49CTOaJbEVBoOauM=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=E0ePynsfvXWZ1PJsAFfy3VU8O0yPk084ILGWGw1LpJq55zXh8sYYxIThW/z6vjJvau+J9XRR5Foc/BlXPfvNwV15hlTkWGp9/80sBrkolrje1HtXsv/7O0n43UUkEp3CptJFs9O7t+3n7R0EwSpud3XoLgHEU1zFz1ZufgB+W/s= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=lIJ92l1wxfg24inUJjpiF5elEo/YCCYAZeKMZS5uSA6laDWpX+lnCpCToQUjL3FpnV93JrJjhyfH7XXIn3ZwkjYRqgxB9BeR04EnoPVh6kTCssSpo+TmmxCwMMEQ0YXowFIZMR1hMSspUDSiPCMuhH4kmWuLrUvqol6l40/qTUI=; X-YMail-OSG: YxcvOgkVM1lPSb7SU8TshOAykg2.H0FTm32aMvzSaWK23KV CYvLPKb89IK6QSEAOSyEZdQL2jA3Rhs5AicjZgaybHbuqLkDgV_FFyG2.A3K PuiBZZhAmmlZahXsAEaQYoIQp9PF9YMMn3JROEM29pUQSlE9dJ6g1jGY4Ja1 n7mm9OgYVuf.C649nVCh8yv1kfS8Hx1NqrhF.h5A.PRro_vVdTr_vNbWMClK wuA4BdMDTgCwig2w5YAHCWYGEtCTOR3ZHfJaiVX9ai6XWOcN39DmzH5IDRRf ay12gLkU3zn.YOj4bxZw0IouD8ZAjsunnvuc7_6gT_wWxJXPUcEwHlDmTMJ7 cT.7z1NhHO5tkvGijD7MGJl3ugoekwvKo0ObV_lJ5OAYARMUlB5oA.2iLTiN J4hUmamT4kmW03ahepqhKhBWyVTucjtoe2rXYhBhnvT7E1sjiuMqjZibZjrq 17S3TJA1BQnntaV5CoTAqscof2ac60muvaV0OEXPKWYYxOnNCXQ-- Original-Received: from [209.5.112.166] by web161610.mail.bf1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 04 Oct 2011 10:38:45 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.114.317681 In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 98.139.212.166 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:82457 Archived-At: =0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message -----=0A> From: Richard Stallman =0A> To: info-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org=0A> Cc: =0A> = Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 11:42:50 PM=0A> Subject: Poll about prop= osed change in DEL (aka Backspace) and Delete=0A> =0A> In Emacs 24, now in = pretest, a change is being considered for ASCII=0A> DEL (on most keyboards,= the Backspace key) and the Delete function=0A> key.=A0 The change affects = the case of an active region that was not=0A> dragged with the mouse.=A0 Th= e change is that these commands would=0A> delete the region, rather than ju= st one character as now.=0A> =0A> In the past, this behavior was enabled in= some minor modes: CUA mode,=0A> Delete Selection mode, and PC Selection mo= de.=A0 In the 24.0.90 pretest,=0A> this behavior is enabled by default.=A0 = Thus, building and using the=0A> pretest is an easy way to try the change.= =0A> =0A> Here are the questions we hope you will answer:=0A> =0A> * Are yo= u in favor of this change?=0A=0AYes=0A=0A> * Are you opposed to this change= ?=0A> =0A> * How strongly do you feel about the matter?=0A=0AIt's a good id= ea to align with common practices whenever possible.=0A=0AIn this case, hac= kers will get used to this rapidly.=A0 They'll complain just 'cause that's = what hackers do, but in the end will move on to more important things than = complain about a mostly harmless change in Emacs' UI.=0A=0A> =0A> We don't = want to just "count votes" -- we want to understand=0A> how this affects us= ers.=A0 So if you care about the issue,=0A> please tell us how the change a= ffects your editing.=0A> =0A> * What are the cases where you find it helps?= =0A> =0A> * What are the cases where you find it hurts?=0A> =0A> * What is = your level of Emacs experience?=0A=0ASince emacs 18.59=0A=0A> =0A> A furthe= r change in the same area has been suggested: when there is an=0A> active r= egion, a self-inserting character would delete the region=0A> before the ch= aracter is inserted by default.=0A> =0A> * What would you think of this fur= ther change?=0A=0AAlign with the widely accepted behavior.=A0 Do it. It's r= eally a minor behavior change.=0A=0AIf Emacs had done it this way from the = get go, people would not lobby to go to what is standard right now in Emacs= .=A0 So, we shouldn't catter to those who want the current behavior to rema= in.=0A=0A> Please send your responses to emacs-delete-poll@gnu.org.=0A> =0A= > =0A> -- =0A> Dr Richard Stallman=0A> President, Free Software Foundation= =0A> 51 Franklin St=0A> Boston MA 02110=0A> USA=0A> www.fsf.org=A0 www.gnu.= org=0A> Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software.=0A> =A0 U= se free telephony http://directory.fsf.org/category/tel/=0A>