From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "roodwriter@core.com" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: C-p, C-b, C-f, and C-n... why? Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 18:09:42 -0500 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: <11pmo0bq0586s73@corp.supernews.com> References: <1133329096.909577.80790@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <11pmkm7sol448a9@corp.supernews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1134256275 4342 80.91.229.2 (10 Dec 2005 23:11:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 23:11:15 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Dec 11 00:11:15 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ElDrB-00070w-OA for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 11 Dec 2005 00:10:22 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ElDra-0007Hz-HT for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 10 Dec 2005 18:10:46 -0500 Original-Path: shelby.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!news.astraweb.com!newsrouter-eu.astraweb.com!feeder.xsnews.nl!138.199.65.86.MISMATCH!sn-ams-06!sn-ams-04!sn-post-ams-02!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041207) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en In-Reply-To: Original-X-Complaints-To: abuse@supernews.com Original-Lines: 47 Original-Xref: shelby.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:136247 Original-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:31861 Archived-At: Peter Dyballa wrote: > > Am 10.12.2005 um 23:13 schrieb roodwriter@core.com: > >> I think the tutorial should start with the arrow keys and then give >> the commands as options and the history behind them. >> > > In (computer) history the arrow (cursor) keys came later ... and the > tutorial is historically grown! > > I too prefer mostly the arrow keys (and mouse cursor). Their use is too > obvious to mention them that early in the tutorial, mentioning them > could be done in a footnote. The recent state is fine in one particular > sense: M-up does not scroll back in *shell* buffer's command history > (because it's undefined); only M-p does. So I think it's necessary to > teach C-{b,f,n,p} first to remember this as a way "move" in many things, > in many sense. > > -- > Greetings > > Pete > > "What is this talk of 'release'? Klingons do not make software > 'releases'. Our software 'escapes' leaving a bloody trail of > designers and quality assurance people in its wake." > > > Not to get into a big dispute about it, but I remember when I first looked at the Emacs tutorial and saw you had to cursor with the control keys, my first thought was maybe I'd bitten off too much. When I found the arrow keys worked I relaxed and started learning. I've always wondered how many people were intimidated by the cursoring section and quit before starting. I wouldn't have had the initial doubts if it'd been clear from the beginning the arrow keys were usable. But that's me. I'm glad Emacs does both. --Rod __________________________ Author of "Linux for Non-Geeks--Clear-eyed Answers for Practical Consumers" and "Boring Stories from Uncle Rod." To reply by e-mail take the extra "o" from the name.