emacs 22 on win XP, selection-coding-system, and copy & paste outside emacs

emacs 22 on win XP, selection-coding-system, and copy & paste outside emacs

[std]

Hi all,

I am using GNU Emacs 22.0.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2005-06-26 on
NONIQPC on a winXP machine.

I am having a hard time setting the coding system to get cut&paste from
emacs to other apps (e.g. firefox) to work.

To be a bit more specific:
1/ I start with the minimal .emacs file below containing nothing but:
(standard-display-european t)
(set-language-environment 'latin-1)
(setq selection-coding-system 'latin-1)

2/ I copy the following from firefox to the clipboard
é è à ù û î ï ö ä

3/ I paste it in an emacs buffer (no problem)

4/ Now, I copy it from emacs to the clipboard and paste into firefox. I
get
⃩ ⃠豈 ⃻ ⃯ ä
(not good)

I've tried a number of other combinations for the
selection-coding-system and language-environment (utf-16le-dos,
compound-text-with-extensions, windows1255, etc...), but could not get
any to work properly. For some combinations,  copy/paste from one emacs
window to another does not work.

I've read a number of posts on the topic, and none solved this problem.

Any idea/hint?

Thanks

St.

Re: emacs 22 on win XP, selection-coding-system, and copy & paste outside emacs

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 03.08.2006 um 11:26 schrieb std:

> (standard-display-european t)

Throw that away! This belongs to to GNU Emacs 19 or such. set- 
language-environment is another dangerous relict. Try prefer-coding- 
system or set environment variables like LC_CTYPE.

There are also set-clipboard-coding-system and set-selection-coding- 
system.

--
Greetings

   Pete

   Basic, n.:
A programming language.  Related to certain social diseases in
that those who have it will not admit it in polite company.

Re: emacs 22 on win XP, selection-coding-system, and copy & paste outside emacs

[std]

Thanks a lot for the hint!
Now it works fine. My .emacs now has only
(set-language-environment 'latin-9)
(set-clipboard-coding-system 'utf-16le-dos)

Cheers,

St.

Peter Dyballa wrote:
> Am 03.08.2006 um 11:26 schrieb std:
>
> > (standard-display-european t)
>
> Throw that away! This belongs to to GNU Emacs 19 or such. set-
> language-environment is another dangerous relict. Try prefer-coding-
> system or set environment variables like LC_CTYPE.
>
> There are also set-clipboard-coding-system and set-selection-coding-
> system.
>
> --
> Greetings
>
>    Pete
>
>    Basic, n.:
> A programming language.  Related to certain social diseases in
> that those who have it will not admit it in polite company.

Re: emacs 22 on win XP, selection-coding-system, and copy & paste outside emacs

[std]

Following your advice, I settled down in .emacs, which does the job
(prefer-coding-system 'latin-9)
(set-clipboard-coding-system 'latin-9)

Thanks again

By the way, is latin-9 a smart choice? (compared to latin-1, or other
utf-8 or -16...). I have no idea on these things.

St.

std wrote:
> Thanks a lot for the hint!
> Now it works fine. My .emacs now has only
> (set-language-environment 'latin-9)
> (set-clipboard-coding-system 'utf-16le-dos)
>
> Cheers,
>
> St.
>
> Peter Dyballa wrote:
> > Am 03.08.2006 um 11:26 schrieb std:
> >
> > > (standard-display-european t)
> >
> > Throw that away! This belongs to to GNU Emacs 19 or such. set-
> > language-environment is another dangerous relict. Try prefer-coding-
> > system or set environment variables like LC_CTYPE.
> >
> > There are also set-clipboard-coding-system and set-selection-coding-
> > system.
> >
> > --
> > Greetings
> >
> >    Pete
> >
> >    Basic, n.:
> > A programming language.  Related to certain social diseases in
> > that those who have it will not admit it in polite company.

Re: emacs 22 on win XP, selection-coding-system, and copy & paste outside emacs

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 03.08.2006 um 12:18 schrieb std:

> By the way, is latin-9 a smart choice? (compared to latin-1, or other
> utf-8 or -16...). I have no idea on these things.

Depends – I use ISO Latin-9/ISO 8859-15 in LaTeX, because then I can  
see € (ISO Latin-1 does not have the Euro currency), my usual  
environment is UTF-8 based. GNU Emacs 22.0.50 still is not perfect in  
UTF-8 use (a month name like Mär in dired is displayed as 'Mär',  
file names appear as 'RGB aÌ\210oÌ\210uÌ\210æÃ\206UÌ\210OÌ 
\210AÌ210.txt' or 'Perl_und_BuÌ\210cher'), the Unicode Emacs 23.0.0  
performs better, so I'd recommend so stay with some 8 bit encoding  
like ISO Latin-9/ISO 8859-15. And use UTF-8 or UTF-16 for data  
exchange with MS Windows XP applications. Both encodings are  
"representations" of a file's contents. UTF-8 uses 8 bit words to  
code this contents, usually using three or two of these words for  
each character, only in case of ASCII or ISO Latin-1 use one such  
word suffices. UTF-16 uses 16 bit words – so it can address the first  
64 K characters in Unicode uniformly, although it makes a difference  
in which sequence/direction the two octets of bits are read, BE or  
LE. Behind the Basic Multilingual Plane (BMP), UTF-8 and UTF-16 need  
to use 32 bits to address the Unicode characters – just as UTF-32  
uses from the start. But of course each of these three systems uses  
its own codes in this range(s)/plane(s) ...

--
Greetings

   Pete

Bake Pizza not war!

Re: emacs 22 on win XP, selection-coding-system, and copy & paste outside emacs

[std]

Thanks a lot Pete for this valuable information!

St

Peter Dyballa wrote:
> Am 03.08.2006 um 12:18 schrieb std:
>
> > By the way, is latin-9 a smart choice? (compared to latin-1, or other
> > utf-8 or -16...). I have no idea on these things.
>
> Depends - I use ISO Latin-9/ISO 8859-15 in LaTeX, because then I can
> see € (ISO Latin-1 does not have the Euro currency), my usual
> environment is UTF-8 based. GNU Emacs 22.0.50 still is not perfect in
> UTF-8 use (a month name like Mär in dired is displayed as 'Mär',
> file names appear as 'RGB aÌ\210oÌ\210uÌ\210æÃ\206UÌ\210OÌ
> \210AÌ210.txt' or 'Perl_und_BuÌ\210cher'), the Unicode Emacs 23.0.0
> performs better, so I'd recommend so stay with some 8 bit encoding
> like ISO Latin-9/ISO 8859-15. And use UTF-8 or UTF-16 for data
> exchange with MS Windows XP applications. Both encodings are
> "representations" of a file's contents. UTF-8 uses 8 bit words to
> code this contents, usually using three or two of these words for
> each character, only in case of ASCII or ISO Latin-1 use one such
> word suffices. UTF-16 uses 16 bit words - so it can address the first
> 64 K characters in Unicode uniformly, although it makes a difference
> in which sequence/direction the two octets of bits are read, BE or
> LE. Behind the Basic Multilingual Plane (BMP), UTF-8 and UTF-16 need
> to use 32 bits to address the Unicode characters - just as UTF-32
> uses from the start. But of course each of these three systems uses
> its own codes in this range(s)/plane(s) ...
> 
> --
> Greetings
> 
>    Pete
> 
> Bake Pizza not war!

Re: emacs 22 on win XP, selection-coding-system, and copy & paste outside emacs

[Reiner Steib]

On Thu, Aug 03 2006, Peter Dyballa wrote:

> Am 03.08.2006 um 11:26 schrieb std:
>
>> (standard-display-european t)
>
> Throw that away! 

ACK.  And also thro way this more than one year old CVS version of
Emacs and get a current one e.g. from
<http://ourcomments.org/Emacs/EmacsW32.html> or
<ftp://alpha.gnu.org/gnu/auctex/>.

> set-language-environment is another dangerous relict. 

Huch?  Why do you think `set-language-environment' is bad?

,----[ (info "(emacs)Language Environments") ]
|    To select a language environment, you can customize the variable
| `current-language-environment' or use the command `M-x
| set-language-environment'.
`----

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: emacs 22 on win XP, selection-coding-system, and copy & paste outside emacs

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 04.08.2006 um 00:35 schrieb Reiner Steib:

> Huch?  Why do you think `set-language-environment' is bad?

Setting it to German broke a few things in GNU Emacs 22.0.50. I don't  
remember any more which, but it felt like a relief when I removed  
this setting.

--
Mit friedvollen Grüßen

   Pete

What’s the difference between OS X and Vista?

Microsoft employees are excited about OS X…

set-language-environment (was: emacs 22 on win XP, selection-coding-system, and copy & paste outside emacs)

[Reiner Steib]

On Fri, Aug 04 2006, Peter Dyballa wrote:

> Am 04.08.2006 um 00:35 schrieb Reiner Steib:
>
>> Huch?  Why do you think `set-language-environment' is bad?
>
> Setting it to German broke a few things in GNU Emacs 22.0.50. I
> don't remember any more which, but it felt like a relief when I
> removed this setting.

You should have used `M-x report-emacs-bug RET', I think.

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: emacs 22 on win XP, selection-coding-system, and copy & paste outside emacs

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Peter Dyballa <Peter_Dyballa@Web.DE>
> Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 01:12:43 +0200
> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> 
> 
> Am 04.08.2006 um 00:35 schrieb Reiner Steib:
> 
> > Huch?  Why do you think `set-language-environment' is bad?
> 
> Setting it to German broke a few things in GNU Emacs 22.0.50. I don't  
> remember any more which, but it felt like a relief when I removed  
> this setting.

If this happens again, please report that as a bug (to
emacs-devel@gnu.org).  If you can afford it, I'd urge you to restore
that setting and report any problems you see.  There shouldn't be any,
now that you removed standard-display-european.

TIA

Re: emacs 22 on win XP, selection-coding-system, and copy & paste outside emacs

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 04.08.2006 um 12:17 schrieb Eli Zaretskii:

> If this happens again, please report that as a bug (to
> emacs-devel@gnu.org).

I think that what I call a bug is (was years back) meant as a feature  
(excerpt from mule-cmds.el):

     ("de" "German" iso-8859-1)

This is completely wrong since almost ten years! We have the € as  
currency, D-Mark is dead. Today eleven other countries have the €  
(plus Montenegro, I think): http://www.ecb.de/bc/intro/html/map.en.html.

I sent a short bug report ...

> If you can afford it, I'd urge you to restore that setting and  
> report any problems you see.  There shouldn't be any, now that you  
> removed standard-display-european.

No, I can't afford it! The time of 8 bit encodings has finished. My  
OS is UTF-8 based. And I hope to die before I'll have to use a 7 or 8  
bit OS again. And if I wouldn't die naturally, I'll find some way!

--
Greetings

   Pete

Either this man is dead or my watch has stopped.
                                          - Groucho Marx

Re: emacs 22 on win XP, selection-coding-system, and copy & paste outside emacs

[David Kastrup]

Peter Dyballa <Peter_Dyballa@Web.DE> writes:

> Am 04.08.2006 um 12:17 schrieb Eli Zaretskii:
>
>> If this happens again, please report that as a bug (to
>> emacs-devel@gnu.org).
>
> I think that what I call a bug is (was years back) meant as a feature
> (excerpt from mule-cmds.el):
>
>     ("de" "German" iso-8859-1)
>
> This is completely wrong since almost ten years! We have the € as
> currency, D-Mark is dead. Today eleven other countries have the €
> (plus Montenegro, I think):
> http://www.ecb.de/bc/intro/html/map.en.html.
>
> I sent a short bug report ...

I answered it.  "de" is and has always been iso-8859-1.  If you want
iso-8859-15, use "de@euro".

>> If you can afford it, I'd urge you to restore that setting and
>> report any problems you see.  There shouldn't be any, now that you
>> removed standard-display-european.
>
> No, I can't afford it! The time of 8 bit encodings has finished. My
> OS is UTF-8 based. And I hope to die before I'll have to use a 7 or
> 8 bit OS again. And if I wouldn't die naturally, I'll find some way!

If you want utf-8, use "de.UTF-8".  You can't blame Emacs for not
guessing that you specify the wrong locale to it.

-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

Re: emacs 22 on win XP, selection-coding-system, and copy & paste outside emacs

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> From: Peter Dyballa <Peter_Dyballa@Web.DE>
> Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 12:51:43 +0200
> 
> I sent a short bug report ...

Thanks.

> > If you can afford it, I'd urge you to restore that setting and  
> > report any problems you see.  There shouldn't be any, now that you  
> > removed standard-display-european.
> 
> No, I can't afford it! The time of 8 bit encodings has finished. My  
> OS is UTF-8 based. And I hope to die before I'll have to use a 7 or 8  
> bit OS again. And if I wouldn't die naturally, I'll find some way!

It sounds like my simple request somehow offended you or otherwise
made you angry.  I don't know what I did wrong, but I apologize
anyway.

Re: emacs 22 on win XP, selection-coding-system, and copy & paste outside emacs

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 04.08.2006 um 13:14 schrieb Eli Zaretskii:

> It sounds like my simple request somehow offended you or otherwise
> made you angry.  I don't know what I did wrong, but I apologize
> anyway.

No need to apologise, I simply do not want to live in a restricted 8  
bit world that ends at some country's border, for which I try to work  
in Unicode Emacs 23.0.0 and try to help GNU Emacs 22.0.50 come close  
to it. *I* should apologise if I sounded so harsh and repulsive!

--
Greetings

   Pete

Bake Pizza not war!

Re: set-language-environment (was: emacs 22 on win XP, selection-coding-system, and copy & paste outside emacs)

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 04.08.2006 um 10:37 schrieb Reiner Steib:

> On Fri, Aug 04 2006, Peter Dyballa wrote:
>
>> Am 04.08.2006 um 00:35 schrieb Reiner Steib:
>>
>>> Huch?  Why do you think `set-language-environment' is bad?
>>
>> Setting it to German broke a few things in GNU Emacs 22.0.50. I
>> don't remember any more which, but it felt like a relief when I
>> removed this setting.
>
> You should have used `M-x report-emacs-bug RET', I think.
>

Could be ... David Kastrup already answered that my eMail was kind of  
nonsense.

Actually I do not care so much on this item: I know since some months  
and I do avoid it and I'll try to continue to warn using it. From  
time to time I might explain that it might often set an 8 bit  
environment with an inappropriate encoding like ISO 8859-1 in the €  
zone!

--
Mit friedvollen Grüßen

   Pete

Die Zeit wird kommen, da unsere Nachkommen sich wundern werden, wie  
wir so wunderbare Dinge einfach gewusst haben konnten.
                         (Ein Optimist nach Lucius Annæus Seneca)

Re: emacs 22 on win XP, selection-coding-system, and copy & paste outside emacs

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 04.08.2006 um 13:07 schrieb David Kastrup:

> If you want utf-8, use "de.UTF-8".  You can't blame Emacs for not
> guessing that you specify the wrong locale to it.

I do not blame GNU Emacs, because I avoid setting

	(set-language-environment       'German)

Those who have this statement get an environment from the past.

--
Mit friedvollen Grüßen

   Pete

Behold the warranty ... the bold print giveth and the fine print  
taketh away.

Re: emacs 22 on win XP, selection-coding-system, and copy & paste outside emacs

[David Kastrup]

Peter Dyballa <Peter_Dyballa@Web.DE> writes:

> Am 04.08.2006 um 13:07 schrieb David Kastrup:
>
>> If you want utf-8, use "de.UTF-8".  You can't blame Emacs for not
>> guessing that you specify the wrong locale to it.
>
> I do not blame GNU Emacs, because I avoid setting
>
> 	(set-language-environment       'German)
>
> Those who have this statement get an environment from the past.

Those who have this statement get nonsense, since
set-language-environment takes a string as an argument.

set-language-environment is an interactive compiled Lisp function in `mule-cmds.el'.
It is bound to C-x RET l.
(set-language-environment LANGUAGE-NAME)

Set up multi-lingual environment for using LANGUAGE-NAME.
This sets the coding system priority and the default input method
and sometimes other things.  LANGUAGE-NAME should be a string
which is the name of a language environment.  For example, "Latin-1"
specifies the character set for the major languages of Western Europe.

[back]


-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

Re: emacs 22 on win XP, selection-coding-system, and copy & paste outside emacs

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 04.08.2006 um 14:11 schrieb David Kastrup:

> LANGUAGE-NAME should be a string

(set-language-environment  "German")

makes no difference: I again trapped in 8 bit ISO 8859-1.

--
Mit friedvollen Grüßen

   Pete

Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never  
stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and  
neither do we.
                                      -- Georges W. Bush