From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: not good proposal: "C-z " reserved for users Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 14:40:38 +0200 Message-ID: <0e37cf97-b9ee-e3af-16e3-3a312c47e75f@yandex.ru> References: <87r1llsuxq.fsf@robertthorpeconsulting.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="28584"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Robert Thorpe , Gregory Heytings Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Feb 12 13:55:58 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lAXzK-0007HT-6F for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 13:55:58 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59370 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lAXzJ-0002yx-5e for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 07:55:57 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60902) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lAXkd-000649-42 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 07:40:47 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-wr1-x429.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::429]:35233) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lAXkX-0007sx-SE for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 07:40:43 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-wr1-x429.google.com with SMTP id l12so7686267wry.2 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 04:40:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=S46A8GxqiWGDe60klZbjTRnjCLkjBUCbDAvakPgaPSw=; b=UHAnglHTD5sesFhEwZQeIfZvP/HAn384quV6N1YMye6Czvn66mn9fWzMqVZQAvszrU VplC1Z5eCavG9dsI0W1cxQyjwocNYp8xEDqlBMoCdWmZ5K3pltc/3JtEzfdc46yd1S5M hZqr1AXr5HaByqImtTjqU689ru1Mf4wyLmTB0aSFA04OUEPUUkZUqZaAi3u7h0yvFdMC 1yQLuhBRs3GK0Vqne3uNADyJt6uptUPkR6AxJ3DyjI1GP01SZ4rAVL/lmOXYJdMekMKe I24eEauHvv48Hrqq0sbVuJiZ5iHGHc3zqvVLCjqVFXa3VEGSuBkGPgYN5077H8Kxu5Zp A57A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=S46A8GxqiWGDe60klZbjTRnjCLkjBUCbDAvakPgaPSw=; b=MjTW3lt2uIOTNutdWCpnhmy37c0jOM4UjyquRJAt9YVI4kK/qsdjTX0LL9uX70xsyc Kfnw2YKwLCvUx1rmdnLGRIrP9vhgk5UXgG9sFRhOU/AlJJJBPlgARh2QKPJfau4am9ep XocBjLpNOlyVitMtFFTZIs0GSnTVU/VjvFQkT4JscQOTh28dAIQYt9GHWAPAGRUEaIcH BARMj0yfJRy2CNJtdIwUXQvSfriSFFNgJHHP+5JFKuLFb6WezDGPMGxMdlMCX+CCA+gr RTEpPYkRa6XbM32Cgtuo6FAyQgVnnLS0mNYTAGWwcapHGDOK2m2wy4gVHcIRQi7nvc2d 0Unw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531VSBR69+Ex8Zc0lMb+Wco4AL+pUbEzsz7Na/QcaFBE02istEEx 2O+DRS+q0rcM/XI/kM74IIwx4LEUG1E= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx83syFKbT3D9lgV1k+9UZJoNAeTcjII8/nAkQqrj4k7i4Tj8ph6nqgA4EIzGTsKWfuFQ6viA== X-Received: by 2002:adf:e884:: with SMTP id d4mr3061464wrm.275.1613133640075; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 04:40:40 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.6] ([46.251.119.176]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id n5sm12321173wmq.7.2021.02.12.04.40.39 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 12 Feb 2021 04:40:39 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87r1llsuxq.fsf@robertthorpeconsulting.com> Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::429; envelope-from=raaahh@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x429.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -15 X-Spam_score: -1.6 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.119, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:127847 Archived-At: On 12.02.2021 07:42, Robert Thorpe wrote: > I agree with Jean Louis on that too. I think C-z C-z is not good > enough. Every other terminal application uses C-z by itself, it's a > convention. It's been that way for decades. If you write a terminal > application and do nothing special then C-z will suspend it. That's > because it sends SIGTSTP. Could we someday stop considering Emacs a "terminal application"? Yes, it has a version that works in the terminal, but it's limited in features compared to the graphical one. Even non-graphical features, such as available key binding space. > Conventions make the whole operating system easier to use. > > In your other replies you talk about casual users of Emacs. What about > casual users who also use the shell? One of my friends is like that - > he uses the shell for everything. But he uses Emacs for editing. That > workflow means suspending Emacs very often. To users like that you are > breaking a very old and well established expectation. 'C-x C-z', a binding which has existed for a long time, is not too hard to type.