Re: [NEWBIE] exec path not expanding

Re: [NEWBIE] exec path not expanding

[Hugh Wolf]

On 2003-10-21, Robert Pollard <rpollard@apple.com> wrote:
> Technically, I don't start Emacs from a shell since it is a Mac OS X 
> app but in a round about way it starts from my home, which does have 
> the expanded versions of the path names.

If you launch emacs from the Finder or the Dock, it will be running in
an environment in which no shell rc or login rc has ever run.  As a
result, the value of PATH at will always be the default.

If you want PATH or any other environment variable to have a
non-default value in an osx application, you have two choices:

1. Define the variable in ~/.MacOSX/environment.plist.

2. Launch the app from a Terminal window (via 'open'), not from the
Finder or the Dock.

Re: [NEWBIE] exec path not expanding

[Robert Pollard]

Hey Hugh,

On Tuesday, October 21, 2003, at 09:36 AM, Hugh Wolf wrote:

> On 2003-10-21, Robert Pollard <rpollard@apple.com> wrote:
>> Technically, I don't start Emacs from a shell since it is a Mac OS X
>> app but in a round about way it starts from my home, which does have
>> the expanded versions of the path names.
>
> If you launch emacs from the Finder or the Dock, it will be running in
> an environment in which no shell rc or login rc has ever run.  As a
> result, the value of PATH at will always be the default.
>
> If you want PATH or any other environment variable to have a
> non-default value in an osx application, you have two choices:
>
> 1. Define the variable in ~/.MacOSX/environment.plist.

The PATH variable is defined in the environment.plist file.  The 
following entry is in the file:
<key>PATH</key>
<string>/$SYBASE/$SYBASE_OCS/bin:$SYBASE/$SYBASE_ASE/bin:$PATH</string>

Obviously, it is not understanding the environment variables here.  Is 
there a way that you are aware of to make OS X read the variables from 
the environment to help define a variable or add to a variable as in 
the above entry?

Thanks for your input,

Robert

>
> 2. Launch the app from a Terminal window (via 'open'), not from the
> Finder or the Dock.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Help-gnu-emacs mailing list
> Help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-gnu-emacs

Re: [NEWBIE] exec path not expanding

[Kevin Rodgers]

Robert Pollard wrote:

> On Tuesday, October 21, 2003, at 09:36 AM, Hugh Wolf wrote:
>> If you launch emacs from the Finder or the Dock, it will be running in
>> an environment in which no shell rc or login rc has ever run.  As a
>> result, the value of PATH at will always be the default.
>>
>> If you want PATH or any other environment variable to have a
>> non-default value in an osx application, you have two choices:
>>
>> 1. Define the variable in ~/.MacOSX/environment.plist.
> 
> The PATH variable is defined in the environment.plist file.  The 
> following entry is in the file:
> <key>PATH</key>
> <string>/$SYBASE/$SYBASE_OCS/bin:$SYBASE/$SYBASE_ASE/bin:$PATH</string>


Since $SYBASE starts with /, you probably don't want that initial slash.


> Obviously, it is not understanding the environment variables here.  Is 
> there a way that you are aware of to make OS X read the variables from 
> the environment to help define a variable or add to a variable as in the 
> above entry?


-- 
Kevin Rodgers

Re: [NEWBIE] exec path not expanding

[Hugh Wolf]

On 2003-10-21, Robert Pollard <rpollard@apple.com> wrote:
>> 1. Define the variable in ~/.MacOSX/environment.plist.
>
> The PATH variable is defined in the environment.plist file.  The 
> following entry is in the file:
><key>PATH</key>
><string>/$SYBASE/$SYBASE_OCS/bin:$SYBASE/$SYBASE_ASE/bin:$PATH</string>
> ...
> Obviously, it is not understanding the environment variables here.


Remember that no shell is running in this situation.  As a result, $
has no special meaning here -- it's just a character like any other.
You can't use any form of shell processing in environment.plist.




> there a way that you are aware of to make OS X read the variables from 
> the environment to help define a variable or add to a variable as in 
> the above entry?

If you're launching apps outside any shell context I think the answer
is that you're out of luck.

Of course you can always create a shell script that sources your
.bashrc (or whatever) and then opens Emacs.app.  Script Menu is a
handy way to launch shell scripts from the gui.

Re: [NEWBIE] exec path not expanding

[Robert Pollard]

Then what I need to do is get rid of this section of the  
environment.plist file.  Apple needs to fix this.  I'll do a check in  
Radar to see if this has been logged.  You can't expand on the PATH  
variable if you can't use variables in the definitions in this file.   
If they left it alone and allowed the GUI to use whatever the terminal  
uses as other *NIX environments do this wouldn't be a problem.

Thanks for all your help,

Robert

On Wednesday, October 22, 2003, at 05:38 AM, Hugh Wolf wrote:

> On 2003-10-21, Robert Pollard <rpollard@apple.com> wrote:
>>> 1. Define the variable in ~/.MacOSX/environment.plist.
>>
>> The PATH variable is defined in the environment.plist file.  The
>> following entry is in the file:
>> <key>PATH</key>
>> <string>/$SYBASE/$SYBASE_OCS/bin:$SYBASE/$SYBASE_ASE/bin:$PATH</ 
>> string>
>> ...
>> Obviously, it is not understanding the environment variables here.
>
>
> Remember that no shell is running in this situation.  As a result, $
> has no special meaning here -- it's just a character like any other.
> You can't use any form of shell processing in environment.plist.
>
>
>
>
>> there a way that you are aware of to make OS X read the variables from
>> the environment to help define a variable or add to a variable as in
>> the above entry?
>
> If you're launching apps outside any shell context I think the answer
> is that you're out of luck.
>
> Of course you can always create a shell script that sources your
> .bashrc (or whatever) and then opens Emacs.app.  Script Menu is a
> handy way to launch shell scripts from the gui.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Help-gnu-emacs mailing list
> Help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-gnu-emacs

Re: [NEWBIE] exec path not expanding

[Kevin Rodgers]

Robert Pollard wrote:

> Hello Kevin,
> 
> On Wednesday, September 24, 2003, at 02:18 PM, Kevin Rodgers wrote:
> 
>> Robert Pollard wrote:
>>
>>> Hello everyone,
>>> I am curious as to why my exec path is not expanding the PATH 
>>> variable.  Does it expand it when it uses it or should it be expanded 
>>> in the exec-path variable?
>>> I cannot get a directory listing and as per a previous post I get an 
>>> error that it can't find the ls program.  Could this be the cause?
>>> exec-path's value is
>>> ("/$SYBASE/$SYBASE_OCS/bin" "$SYBASE/$SYBASE_ASE/bin" "$PATH" 
>>> "/Applications/Emacs.app/Contents/MacOS/bin" 
>>> "/Applications/Emacs.app/Contents/MacOS/libexec")
>>
>>
>> Hmmm.  What do (getenv "SYBASE"), (getenv "SYBASE_OCS"), (getenv 
>> "SYBASE_ASE"),
>> and (getenv "PATH") return?
> 
> 
> SYBASE = /Applications/Sybase/System
> SYBASE_OCS = OCS-12_5
> SYBASE_ASE = ASE-12_5
> PATH = /$SYBASE/$SYBASE_OCS/bin:$SYBASE/$SYBASE_ASE/bin:$PATH

That last line leads me to believe that some shell initialization file is
broken.  What is your login shell?  And exactly what do the commands in the
init file that are trying to prepend the $SYBASE directories to PATH look like?

-- 
Kevin Rodgers

Re: [NEWBIE] exec path not expanding

[Robert Pollard]

Hey Kevin,

On Tuesday, October 21, 2003, at 09:56 AM, Kevin Rodgers wrote:

> Robert Pollard wrote:
>
>> Hello Kevin,
>> On Wednesday, September 24, 2003, at 02:18 PM, Kevin Rodgers wrote:
>>> Robert Pollard wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>> I am curious as to why my exec path is not expanding the PATH 
>>>> variable.  Does it expand it when it uses it or should it be 
>>>> expanded in the exec-path variable?
>>>> I cannot get a directory listing and as per a previous post I get 
>>>> an error that it can't find the ls program.  Could this be the 
>>>> cause?
>>>> exec-path's value is
>>>> ("/$SYBASE/$SYBASE_OCS/bin" "$SYBASE/$SYBASE_ASE/bin" "$PATH" 
>>>> "/Applications/Emacs.app/Contents/MacOS/bin" 
>>>> "/Applications/Emacs.app/Contents/MacOS/libexec")
>>>
>>>
>>> Hmmm.  What do (getenv "SYBASE"), (getenv "SYBASE_OCS"), (getenv 
>>> "SYBASE_ASE"),
>>> and (getenv "PATH") return?
>> SYBASE = /Applications/Sybase/System
>> SYBASE_OCS = OCS-12_5
>> SYBASE_ASE = ASE-12_5
>> PATH = /$SYBASE/$SYBASE_OCS/bin:$SYBASE/$SYBASE_ASE/bin:$PATH
>
> That last line leads me to believe that some shell initialization file 
> is
> broken.  What is your login shell?  And exactly what do the commands 
> in the
> init file that are trying to prepend the $SYBASE directories to PATH 
> look like?

Kai found the problem.  The default install was in the /Applications 
folder for the system instead of my home directory.  I moved Emacs into 
my home directory and it still wouldn't work.  When I launched it from 
the terminal it worked fine.  I am going to have to investigate why the 
double-click doesn't work and the command line does.  I know my PATH is 
correct when I logon to the terminal but I don't know how to see the 
environment apart from the terminal.  If there was a GUI tool to see 
the environment variables this would probably show that they aren't 
expanded much the same as Emacs does when I use getenv.

If you have any ideas let me know.  If I find out what the cause is 
I'll post the cure to let you guys know.

Thanks,

Robert

>
> -- 
> Kevin Rodgers
>
> _______________________________________________
> Help-gnu-emacs mailing list
> Help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-gnu-emacs

Re: [NEWBIE] exec path not expanding

[Kevin Rodgers]

Robert Pollard wrote:

> Hello everyone,
> 
> I am curious as to why my exec path is not expanding the PATH variable. 
>  Does it expand it when it uses it or should it be expanded in the 
> exec-path variable?
> 
> I cannot get a directory listing and as per a previous post I get an 
> error that it can't find the ls program.  Could this be the cause?
> 
> exec-path's value is
> ("/$SYBASE/$SYBASE_OCS/bin" "$SYBASE/$SYBASE_ASE/bin" "$PATH" 
> "/Applications/Emacs.app/Contents/MacOS/bin" 
> "/Applications/Emacs.app/Contents/MacOS/libexec")

Hmmm.  What do (getenv "SYBASE"), (getenv "SYBASE_OCS"), (getenv "SYBASE_ASE"),
and (getenv "PATH") return?


-- 
Kevin Rodgers

Re: [NEWBIE] exec path not expanding

[John Russell]

Kevin Rodgers <ihs_4664@yahoo.com> writes:

> Robert Pollard wrote:
> 
> > Hello everyone,
> > I am curious as to why my exec path is not expanding the PATH
> > variable.  Does it expand it when it uses it or should it be
> > expanded in the exec-path variable?
> > I cannot get a directory listing and as per a previous post I get an
> > error that it can't find the ls program.  Could this be the cause?
> > exec-path's value is
> > ("/$SYBASE/$SYBASE_OCS/bin" "$SYBASE/$SYBASE_ASE/bin" "$PATH"
> > "/Applications/Emacs.app/Contents/MacOS/bin"
> > "/Applications/Emacs.app/Contents/MacOS/libexec")
> 
> Hmmm.  What do (getenv "SYBASE"), (getenv "SYBASE_OCS"), (getenv "SYBASE_ASE"),
> and (getenv "PATH") return?

They return the value of the environment variable of the argument.

C-h f is a great way to figure out what functions do and what they
return.

C-h v is good for variables.

C-h for modes

M-x apropos when you are really desperate

John

Re: [NEWBIE] exec path not expanding

[Kevin Rodgers]

John Russell wrote:

> Kevin Rodgers <ihs_4664@yahoo.com> writes:
> 
> 
>>Robert Pollard wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Hello everyone,
>>>I am curious as to why my exec path is not expanding the PATH
>>>variable.  Does it expand it when it uses it or should it be
>>>expanded in the exec-path variable?
>>>I cannot get a directory listing and as per a previous post I get an
>>>error that it can't find the ls program.  Could this be the cause?
>>>exec-path's value is
>>>("/$SYBASE/$SYBASE_OCS/bin" "$SYBASE/$SYBASE_ASE/bin" "$PATH"
>>>"/Applications/Emacs.app/Contents/MacOS/bin"
>>>"/Applications/Emacs.app/Contents/MacOS/libexec")
>>>
>>Hmmm.  What do (getenv "SYBASE"), (getenv "SYBASE_OCS"), (getenv "SYBASE_ASE"),
>>and (getenv "PATH") return?
> 
> They return the value of the environment variable of the argument.

That's what they should return, but I asked Robert to check since the
variable references and not the actual values were put into exec-path.

-- 
Kevin Rodgers

Re: [NEWBIE] exec path not expanding

[Robert Pollard]

Hello Kevin,

On Wednesday, September 24, 2003, at 02:18 PM, Kevin Rodgers wrote:

> Robert Pollard wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone,
>> I am curious as to why my exec path is not expanding the PATH 
>> variable.  Does it expand it when it uses it or should it be expanded 
>> in the exec-path variable?
>> I cannot get a directory listing and as per a previous post I get an 
>> error that it can't find the ls program.  Could this be the cause?
>> exec-path's value is
>> ("/$SYBASE/$SYBASE_OCS/bin" "$SYBASE/$SYBASE_ASE/bin" "$PATH" 
>> "/Applications/Emacs.app/Contents/MacOS/bin" 
>> "/Applications/Emacs.app/Contents/MacOS/libexec")
>
> Hmmm.  What do (getenv "SYBASE"), (getenv "SYBASE_OCS"), (getenv 
> "SYBASE_ASE"),
> and (getenv "PATH") return?

SYBASE = /Applications/Sybase/System
SYBASE_OCS = OCS-12_5
SYBASE_ASE = ASE-12_5
PATH = /$SYBASE/$SYBASE_OCS/bin:$SYBASE/$SYBASE_ASE/bin:$PATH

Thanks,

Robert

>
>
> -- 
> Kevin Rodgers
>
> _______________________________________________
> Help-gnu-emacs mailing list
> Help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-gnu-emacs

Re: [NEWBIE] exec path not expanding

[Kai Grossjohann]

Robert Pollard <rpollard@apple.com> writes:

> I am curious as to why my exec path is not expanding the PATH
> variable. Does it expand it when it uses it or should it be expanded
> in the exec-path variable?

I guess that $PATH should be expanded already.  I think that
exec-path is initialized from $PATH.

In the shell where you start Emacs, have a look at $PATH.  Does it
contain them "$SYBASE" strings literally, dollar-sign and all?

Maybe PATH="$PATH" or setenv PATH "$PATH" might be useful things to
type in the shell before starting Emacs.

Kai

Re: [NEWBIE] exec path not expanding

[Robert Pollard]

Hey Kai,

On Tuesday, October 14, 2003, at 02:20 PM, Kai Grossjohann wrote:

> Robert Pollard <rpollard@apple.com> writes:
>
>> I am curious as to why my exec path is not expanding the PATH
>> variable. Does it expand it when it uses it or should it be expanded
>> in the exec-path variable?
>
> I guess that $PATH should be expanded already.  I think that
> exec-path is initialized from $PATH.

You are correct!

>
> In the shell where you start Emacs, have a look at $PATH.  Does it
> contain them "$SYBASE" strings literally, dollar-sign and all?

Technically, I don't start Emacs from a shell since it is a Mac OS X 
app but in a round about way it starts from my home, which does have 
the expanded versions of the path names.  If I go to the terminal and 
printenv for PATH it has the path names expanded out.

>
> Maybe PATH="$PATH" or setenv PATH "$PATH" might be useful things to
> type in the shell before starting Emacs.

I believe it is correct.  However, I don't know why Emacs doesn't see 
it the same.  Maybe it expands the variables before it uses and it is 
some other problem???  I don't know what's is going on.  For now, I'm 
dragging the documents to Emacs instead of using Dired to find files.

Thanks,

Robert

>
> Kai
>
> _______________________________________________
> Help-gnu-emacs mailing list
> Help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-gnu-emacs

Re: [NEWBIE] exec path not expanding

[Kai Grossjohann]

Robert Pollard <rpollard@apple.com> writes:

> On Tuesday, October 14, 2003, at 02:20 PM, Kai Grossjohann wrote:
>
>> Robert Pollard <rpollard@apple.com> writes:
>>
>>> I am curious as to why my exec path is not expanding the PATH
>>> variable. Does it expand it when it uses it or should it be expanded
>>> in the exec-path variable?
>>
>> I guess that $PATH should be expanded already.  I think that
>> exec-path is initialized from $PATH.
>
> You are correct!

Okay.  So what does M-: (getenv "PATH") RET say in Emacs?

>> In the shell where you start Emacs, have a look at $PATH.  Does it
>> contain them "$SYBASE" strings literally, dollar-sign and all?
>
> Technically, I don't start Emacs from a shell since it is a Mac OS X
> app

Hm, yeah.  I hate that.  How can people do any debugging in this
circumstance?  Argh :-(

Do you have a menu item similar to the "Start/Run..." item in
Windows?  Then you could try to enter as the command "env" and check
the "run in terminal" checkbox.  If there is one.

> but in a round about way it starts from my home, which does have the
> expanded versions of the path names.  If I go to the terminal and
> printenv for PATH it has the path names expanded out.

Home doesn't have much to do with PATH.  But I think what you mean is
that if you open a terminal window, then your current working
directory is your home dir, and in that terminal window, the
environment looks sane.

But it could be that ~/.cshrc or ~/.login (I'm wildly guessing that
MacOS is following the BSDish tradition of using csh by default) is
playing psychotherapist to make your environment sane.

Hm.  Can't you start Emacs from the shell?  Like "start Emacs.app" or
"open Emacs.app" or something like this?  Then you could compare an
Emacs started from the shell with an Emacs started by double-clicking
or whatever it is that one does on MacOS to start Emacs.

>> Maybe PATH="$PATH" or setenv PATH "$PATH" might be useful things to
>> type in the shell before starting Emacs.
>
> I believe it is correct.  However, I don't know why Emacs doesn't see
> it the same.  Maybe it expands the variables before it uses and it is
> some other problem???  I don't know what's is going on.  For now, I'm
> dragging the documents to Emacs instead of using Dired to find files.

My guess is that the environment that Emacs starts in is different
from the environment set up by the shell.  Does this make sense?

Kai

Re: [NEWBIE] exec path not expanding

[Robert Pollard]

Hello again,

On Tuesday, October 21, 2003, at 12:56 PM, Kai Grossjohann wrote:

> Robert Pollard <rpollard@apple.com> writes:
>
>> On Tuesday, October 14, 2003, at 02:20 PM, Kai Grossjohann wrote:
>>
>>> Robert Pollard <rpollard@apple.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> I am curious as to why my exec path is not expanding the PATH
>>>> variable. Does it expand it when it uses it or should it be expanded
>>>> in the exec-path variable?
>>>
>>> I guess that $PATH should be expanded already.  I think that
>>> exec-path is initialized from $PATH.
>>
>> You are correct!
>
> Okay.  So what does M-: (getenv "PATH") RET say in Emacs?

Here's the question and answers from another poster:

> Hmmm.  What do (getenv "SYBASE"), (getenv "SYBASE_OCS"), (getenv 
> "SYBASE_ASE"),
> and (getenv "PATH") return?

SYBASE = /Applications/Sybase/System
SYBASE_OCS = OCS-12_5
SYBASE_ASE = ASE-12_5
PATH = /$SYBASE/$SYBASE_OCS/bin:$SYBASE/$SYBASE_ASE/bin:$PATH

But in the terminal the variables are expanded as expected when using 
printenv PATH.

>
>>> In the shell where you start Emacs, have a look at $PATH.  Does it
>>> contain them "$SYBASE" strings literally, dollar-sign and all?
>>
>> Technically, I don't start Emacs from a shell since it is a Mac OS X
>> app
>
> Hm, yeah.  I hate that.  How can people do any debugging in this
> circumstance?  Argh :-(
>
> Do you have a menu item similar to the "Start/Run..." item in
> Windows?  Then you could try to enter as the command "env" and check
> the "run in terminal" checkbox.  If there is one.

I just tried it and it worked.  If I run it from the command line it 
works fine (after I moved Emacs from the Applications folder to my 
Applications folder).  It installed in the system's Application folder 
for whatever reason.  When I double-click on the app it errors out as 
before.  But, when I launch using the command line it works just fine.  
Would this be an indicator that my environment variables are not set up 
right when my system boots?  Although, the terminal shows they are 
fine.  Maybe there is another place the Mac sets environment variables 
for the user when they boot.  I'll have to check on this.

>
>> but in a round about way it starts from my home, which does have the
>> expanded versions of the path names.  If I go to the terminal and
>> printenv for PATH it has the path names expanded out.
>
> Home doesn't have much to do with PATH.  But I think what you mean is
> that if you open a terminal window, then your current working
> directory is your home dir, and in that terminal window, the
> environment looks sane.
>
> But it could be that ~/.cshrc or ~/.login (I'm wildly guessing that
> MacOS is following the BSDish tradition of using csh by default) is
> playing psychotherapist to make your environment sane.

It uses .tcshrc.  tcshrc is the default shell for OS X.

>
> Hm.  Can't you start Emacs from the shell?  Like "start Emacs.app" or
> "open Emacs.app" or something like this?  Then you could compare an
> Emacs started from the shell with an Emacs started by double-clicking
> or whatever it is that one does on MacOS to start Emacs.

This is the problem.

>
>>> Maybe PATH="$PATH" or setenv PATH "$PATH" might be useful things to
>>> type in the shell before starting Emacs.
>>
>> I believe it is correct.  However, I don't know why Emacs doesn't see
>> it the same.  Maybe it expands the variables before it uses and it is
>> some other problem???  I don't know what's is going on.  For now, I'm
>> dragging the documents to Emacs instead of using Dired to find files.
>
> My guess is that the environment that Emacs starts in is different
> from the environment set up by the shell.  Does this make sense?

You got it!

Now I have to figure out why!

Thanks,

Robert Pollard

>
> Kai
>

Re: [NEWBIE] exec path not expanding

[Kai Grossjohann]

Robert Pollard <rpollard@apple.com> writes:

> Now I have to figure out why! [[the environment in the shell is
> different from the environment that Emacs.app gets when clicked on]]

Well, it's quite simple, I guess: ~/.tcshrc and friends probably set
the environment.  tcsh reads those files when it starts up.

Hm.

Ah!  Google is my friend.  "environment variables macos" turns up the
following most interesting page:

http://www.astro.washington.edu/owen/AquaEnvVar.html

I only skimmed it.  I contains pointers to other places.  I hope it
helps.

(I don't have a Mac, but having an iBook would be way cool ;-)

Kai

[NEWBIE] exec path not expanding

[Robert Pollard]

Hello everyone,

I am curious as to why my exec path is not expanding the PATH variable. 
  Does it expand it when it uses it or should it be expanded in the 
exec-path variable?

I cannot get a directory listing and as per a previous post I get an 
error that it can't find the ls program.  Could this be the cause?

exec-path's value is
("/$SYBASE/$SYBASE_OCS/bin" "$SYBASE/$SYBASE_ASE/bin" "$PATH" 
"/Applications/Emacs.app/Contents/MacOS/bin" 
"/Applications/Emacs.app/Contents/MacOS/libexec")

Thanks,

Robert Pollard