From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ulrich Mueller Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.tangents Subject: Re: [ELPA] New package: repology.el Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2021 12:54:44 +0100 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="20189"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-tangents@gnu.org, Richard Stallman , Ulrich Mueller , ams@gnu.org, arthur.miller@live.com, dgutov@yandex.ru To: Jean Louis Original-X-From: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Jan 08 15:33:37 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kxspc-00058t-P8 for get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 08 Jan 2021 15:33:36 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54950 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kxspb-0001mq-Rq for get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 08 Jan 2021 09:33:35 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46194) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kxqMF-0004tu-G8 for emacs-tangents@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jan 2021 06:55:07 -0500 Original-Received: from woodpecker.gentoo.org ([2001:470:ea4a:1:5054:ff:fec7:86e4]:49739 helo=smtp.gentoo.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kxqMD-0004f0-7A; Fri, 08 Jan 2021 06:55:06 -0500 In-Reply-To: (Jean Louis's message of "Thu, 7 Jan 2021 23:23:18 +0300") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2001:470:ea4a:1:5054:ff:fec7:86e4; envelope-from=ulm@gentoo.org; helo=smtp.gentoo.org X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 08 Jan 2021 09:33:06 -0500 X-BeenThere: emacs-tangents@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other Emacs mailing lists List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-tangents" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.tangents:520 Archived-At: >>>>> On Thu, 07 Jan 2021, Jean Louis wrote: > * Ulrich Mueller [2021-01-07 22:38]: >> Gentoo is about choice, and has always leaned a little on the pragmatic >> side. If we would (for example) exclude all non-free Linux firmware, >> then I am certain that in order to have a usable system, most users >> would choose to install such firmware nevertheless, bypassing the >> package manager. Again, our default there is to install only free >> firmware, but we leave users the choice to install additional blobs when >> they explicitly ask for it. > Then maybe that is how users are trained or indoctrinated into Gentoo > as managers or maintainers of Gentoo did not teach users about free > software. I am sorry for that. That is why Gentoo will not be endorsed > by GNU project. I know, and presumably it will never be. Gentoo as a source-based distro can also be seen as a "metadistribution" or "distribution toolkit", so it is relatively easy to use it as basis for building a binary distribution. Distros derived from Gentoo may have completely different goals, and examples include Ututo XS (which used to be on the FSF's whitelist IIRC) and Chromium OS. We couldn't be a metadistribution if we were to follow a purist approach and exclude all ebuilds ("recipes" for building packages) for non-free packages from our main repository. Plus, as I've explained before, the dividing line is sometimes within an upstream package when it includes both free and non-free components. However, our defaults are such that the package manager won't install any non-free software. Also note that our ebuilds themselves are GPL licensed. > I am using mostly Hyperbola GNU/Linux-libre now and I have no problems > installing it on plethora of computers. I may use Trisquel or other > FSF endorsed fully free GNU/Linux distribution. Not that I use any > firmware and it is true that maybe some wireless chip does not work, > but hey, it does not matter as we all have Internet here. I have > connected Internet by mobile phone and USB tethering method to one > computer that serves as router to switch that connects other > computers. It works well in a team. Nice. I suppose the mobile phone runs free software then? What are you using there? OTOH, I guess I'd have a hard time convincing a typical MS-Windows user to switch to GNU/Linux if I told them "look, your wireless will no longer work" or "sorry, no mitigation for Spectre/Meltdown because the CPU microcode is non-free". And that may also be one of the reasons why the top ten list on (e.g.) distrowatch doesn't include any of the FSF recommended distros. (Which by no means says anything about their quality, but it does say something about their popularity.)