Re: Blog post

Re: Blog post

[Christopher Dimech via Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other Emacs mailing lists]

> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2023 at 9:29 PM
> From: "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" <arne_bab@web.de>
> To: "Christopher Dimech" <dimech@gmx.com>
> Cc: "Eshel Yaron" <me@eshelyaron.com>, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Subject: Re: Blog post
>
> 
> Christopher Dimech <dimech@gmx.com> writes:
> 
> > From your experience, have your rants been justified ? Introspection
> > of other people's rants should be considered part of the work.  After 
> > all, expletives towards demigods have occurred since time immemorial,
> > and will surely continue.
> 
> Yes, they were totally justified — but usually not helpful. Most times
> they needlessly hurt people who then often stopped contributing. A
> friendly text may have helped to stay together and actually fix the
> problem to move forward as community. - Arne

Nobody gets hurt.   It is commonly a type of vengeance (a form of 
retaliation) intended to dissuade contrarian views directed towards 
the developers.

The Gnu Project is built on the fundamental premise that software is for
the benefit of its users, not solely its developers.  This perspective 
emphasizes the importance of creating an inclusive and collaborative 
community where users can contribute, share ideas, and provide feedback
without reprisals from developers - unlike what generally happens with 
Proprietary Software Developers.

The "Information for Gnu Maintainers" states that when a developer receives
a report, the maintainers have to keep in mind that such reports are crucial
for our work - so always thank each person who sends a report. 

This is not to say that a considerate peaceful problem solving should not
be the common way of approaching the developer team.  Ultimately the job
of the maintainers is to exercise their authority so they can focus upon
improving the next version of the program.  Stopping one's contribution 
rather than exercising one's authority is Conflict Avoidance that shows
a Lack of Responsibility - a sign of failure.   



----- Christopher Dimech
Administrator General - Chilkat Design Build - Naiad Informatics - Gnu Project

Society has become too quick to pass judgement and declare someone
Persona Non-Grata, the most extreme form of censure a country can
bestow.

In a new era of destructive authoritarianism, I support Richard
Stallman.  Times of great crisis are also times of great
opportunity.  I call upon you to make this struggle yours as well !

https://www.gnu.org     https://www.fsf.org/


---
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Re: Blog post

[Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide via Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other Emacs mailing lists]

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Christopher Dimech <dimech@gmx.com> writes:

>> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2023 at 9:29 PM
>> From: "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" <arne_bab@web.de>
>> To: "Christopher Dimech" <dimech@gmx.com>
>> Cc: "Eshel Yaron" <me@eshelyaron.com>, emacs-devel@gnu.org
>> Subject: Re: Blog post
>>
>> 
>> Christopher Dimech <dimech@gmx.com> writes:
>> 
>> > From your experience, have your rants been justified ? Introspection
>> > of other people's rants should be considered part of the work.  After 
>> > all, expletives towards demigods have occurred since time immemorial,
>> > and will surely continue.
>> 
>> Yes, they were totally justified — but usually not helpful. Most times
>> they needlessly hurt people who then often stopped contributing. A
>> friendly text may have helped to stay together and actually fix the
>> problem to move forward as community. - Arne
>
> Nobody gets hurt.   It is commonly a type of vengeance (a form of 
> retaliation) intended to dissuade contrarian views directed towards 
> the developers.

I think there’s a misunderstanding here.

When I ranted, my rants were justified, but my rants hurt people and
that did not help. So not ranting but instead writing a friendly text
would have been the better choice.

Best wishes,
Arne
-- 
Unpolitisch sein
heißt politisch sein,
ohne es zu merken.
draketo.de

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Re: Blog post

[Emanuel Berg]

"Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" via Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other Emacs mailing lists wrote:

>>> Yes, they were totally justified — but usually not
>>> helpful. Most times they needlessly hurt people who then
>>> often stopped contributing. A friendly text may have
>>> helped to stay together and actually fix the problem to
>>> move forward as community. - Arne
>>
>> Nobody gets hurt. It is commonly a type of vengeance (a
>> form of retaliation) intended to dissuade contrarian views
>> directed towards the developers.
>
> I think there’s a misunderstanding here.
>
> When I ranted, my rants were justified, but my rants hurt
> people and that did not help.

Often ranting happens when you are frustrated that people
don't talk to you, so you are not allowed to show frustration
in a good way, you show it in a bad way.

But on e-mail discussion lists it is possible to always write
a more friendly letter.

Sometimes ranting happens still and it isn't that bad.
Often one feels so bad from the whole situation, one feels one
wrote something horrible. But it is often not the case, it is
just one's own feelings one reads into it. HHOS.

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal


---
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Re: Blog post

[Christopher Dimech via Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other Emacs mailing lists]

> Sent: Friday, December 15, 2023 at 12:46 AM
> From: "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide via Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other Emacs mailing lists" <emacs-tangents@gnu.org>
> To: "Christopher Dimech" <dimech@gmx.com>
> Cc: "Eshel Yaron" <me@eshelyaron.com>, Emacs-tangents@gnu.org
> Subject: Re: Blog post
>
> 
> Christopher Dimech <dimech@gmx.com> writes:
> 
> >> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2023 at 9:29 PM
> >> From: "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" <arne_bab@web.de>
> >> To: "Christopher Dimech" <dimech@gmx.com>
> >> Cc: "Eshel Yaron" <me@eshelyaron.com>, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> >> Subject: Re: Blog post
> >>
> >> 
> >> Christopher Dimech <dimech@gmx.com> writes:
> >> 
> >> > From your experience, have your rants been justified ? Introspection
> >> > of other people's rants should be considered part of the work.  After 
> >> > all, expletives towards demigods have occurred since time immemorial,
> >> > and will surely continue.
> >> 
> >> Yes, they were totally justified — but usually not helpful. Most times
> >> they needlessly hurt people who then often stopped contributing. A
> >> friendly text may have helped to stay together and actually fix the
> >> problem to move forward as community. - Arne
> >
> > Nobody gets hurt.   It is commonly a type of vengeance (a form of 
> > retaliation) intended to dissuade contrarian views directed towards 
> > the developers.
> 
> I think there’s a misunderstanding here.
> 
> When I ranted, my rants were justified, but my rants hurt people and
> that did not help. So not ranting but instead writing a friendly text
> would have been the better choice. - Arne

If it was a better choice, one should adopt it.  Strong emotions, especially 
negative ones like anger, can be physically and mentally taxing to everybody. 

Hacker groups have been marked by conflicts or "wars".  Encouraging a transformation
of the working conditions which were historically characterized by intense verbal abuse
is needed.  I put the emphasis on the maintainers themselves to eliminate chaos within
their project.  The latter could be the specific area where our opinions differ.  
Users typically focus upon specific details, whereas software designers focus on
making everything work well together.  From my experience, being a maintainer requires 
a higher level of concentration and control of the external.


---
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Re: Blog post

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Cc: Eshel Yaron <me@eshelyaron.com>, Emacs-tangents@gnu.org
> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 17:20:56 +0100
> From:  Christopher Dimech via Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other
>  Emacs mailing lists <emacs-tangents@gnu.org>
> 
> I put the emphasis on the maintainers themselves to eliminate chaos within
> their project.  The latter could be the specific area where our opinions differ.  
> Users typically focus upon specific details, whereas software designers focus on
> making everything work well together.  From my experience, being a maintainer requires 
> a higher level of concentration and control of the external.

It is quite clear to me from what you wrote above that your mental
model and vision of maintainership of a project like Emacs are very
different from the reality, starting from what does it mean to be a
maintainer of such a project and what is its job description.

Given that, your criticism is mostly off-mark.

---
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Re: Blog post

[Christopher Dimech via Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other Emacs mailing lists]

> Sent: Friday, December 15, 2023 at 5:01 AM
> From: "Eli Zaretskii" <eliz@gnu.org>
> To: "Christopher Dimech" <dimech@gmx.com>
> Cc: arne_bab@web.de, me@eshelyaron.com, Emacs-tangents@gnu.org
> Subject: Re: Blog post
>
> > Cc: Eshel Yaron <me@eshelyaron.com>, Emacs-tangents@gnu.org
> > Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 17:20:56 +0100
> > From:  Christopher Dimech via Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other
> >  Emacs mailing lists <emacs-tangents@gnu.org>
> >
> > I put the emphasis on the maintainers themselves to eliminate chaos within
> > their project.  The latter could be the specific area where our opinions differ.
> > Users typically focus upon specific details, whereas software designers focus on
> > making everything work well together.  From my experience, being a maintainer requires
> > a higher level of concentration and control of the external.
>
> It is quite clear to me from what you wrote above that your mental
> model and vision of maintainership of a project like Emacs are very
> different from the reality, starting from what does it mean to be a
> maintainer of such a project and what is its job description.
>
> Given that, your criticism is mostly off-mark.

Yes,  my vision of maintainership of any project is much different.

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