From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean Louis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.tangents Subject: Re: Help building Pen.el (GPT for emacs) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2021 17:39:33 +0300 Message-ID: References: <83lf642jeh.fsf@gnu.org> <83r1fp1es9.fsf@gnu.org> <83o8at1c63.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="38182"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/2.0.7+183 (3d24855) (2021-05-28) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Stefan Kangas , emacs-tangents@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org To: Shane Mulligan Original-X-From: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 23 16:40:55 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1m6wMB-0009cW-1F for get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 23 Jul 2021 16:40:55 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52648 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m6wM5-0006Ow-2d for get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 23 Jul 2021 10:40:49 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52268) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m6wLs-0006MT-Pf for emacs-tangents@gnu.org; Fri, 23 Jul 2021 10:40:36 -0400 Original-Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:33297) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m6wLq-0003Ha-EA; Fri, 23 Jul 2021 10:40:36 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([::ffff:197.157.0.30]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.3,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 0000000000057F2B.0000000060FAD4DF.00002CDB; Fri, 23 Jul 2021 07:40:30 -0700 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -3 X-Spam_score: -0.4 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=1.5, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-tangents@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other Emacs mailing lists List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-tangents" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.tangents:668 Archived-At: * Shane Mulligan [2021-07-23 16:40]: > Hi Jean, Eli, GNU, > > > "open source" > I am referring to free software in the spirit > of GNU. Free as in freedom, from oppression, > from an attack against creative and cognitive > intelligence. Alright, though in GNU project we don't use the term "Open Source" as it was never about it. The term is "free software". Open Source is today vague, people use the term "Open" for things which are not so open, including source code, there is open source from Microsoft which is proprietary and yet called "open source", there we have now OpenAI which is not free software, and so on. See "Open": https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html#Open > Now you ask again and I'll give you another, but you are missing the > point by focusing on one example when the possibilities are > infinite. I hope that generated code will not take longer time to verify then writing it by hand. Not to mistake me, if the databases are free as in the definition of free software and your code is free, then I am definitely for that, and I like AI, we have too little of the artificial intelligence in 21st century. We are under developed civilization in that regard. The movie 2001: A Space Odyssey was made in 1968, prediction was already that we would have space ships with Hal AI that guides us, but we are not far from bedroom with Amazon spying "AI" devices. It is very important to have all parts free as in free software definition. Review again: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html > GPT turns emacs into something very powerful beyond your current > comprehension. It's so profound that it will replace many of the > online and offline services you may have come to take for > granted. It goes way beyond that too. Yes, I am asking for less abstract, more practical examples. I have no use from the hype. > Here is another demo. > The below instructions were given to me by the > tutor in Pen.el when I asked it for help. > > There are two ways to quit Emacs, the hard way, and the easy way. > In the hard way, you type M-x kill-emacs, and press enter. > In the easy way, you press C-x C-c. I have to look on it realistically from my angle, so I do not see any use in this example. I see that AI guessed something and generated text. I would not agree that M-x kill-emacs is hard way, and that C-x C-c is easy way. I would rather say that easy way is to choose File and Quit menu options. > The following is a prompt that created this interactive function. > > #+BEGIN_SRC yaml > prompt: | > This is a conversation between a human and a brilliant AI. > The topic is "<2>". > > Human: Hello, are you my <1> tutor? > ### > AI: Hi there. > Yes I am. > How can I help you? > ### > Human: Thanks. I have a . <2> > ### > AI: I would be happy to answer your question. > #+END_SRC I am sorry, I wish to see example of usefulness. I will go over your previous examples. It is definitely possible that I neglected it, but you know from beginning that I am interested in this. I have my reasons why I am interested as I do generate a lot of text and I wish to spare my writings. In the above quote I do not see that prompt, and how is relevant to how to quit Emacs. > Here is the recording of me doing that: > > https://asciinema.org/a/SCUhm3l11N3w5eilUfewBDCiP I have clicked on that link and could not find exact reference. I found "haskell lsp with HIE", something about "htop" and "stackexchange". > A prompt may be defined by type names alone, > plus the version of a LM; the rest is inferred > or subjective to peer to peer prompts: > > #+BEGIN_SRC emacs-lisp > (defprompt ("short lines of code" "regex")) > #+END_SRC > > You haven't yet understood the profundity of GPT and > doing a great disservice to free software by > stifling imaginary programming inside emacs. The above hype paragraphs are suspiciously AI-looking. > > You are more or less proposing the same conflict to come to Emacs and > > I did not see where is your solution? > Emacs is dead without GPT. That's why I raised the issue. It's dead > because it can be imagined by LMs and will lose its power. It'll be > just another imagined environment. Software is changing and Emacs > can't miss out because it represents freedom. That was not context of my question. Did you read last email to Eli about it? It seem like you either ignored my question or you keep using AI to generate hype about it. Julia Reda from Germany is at least trying to answer my question related to licensing compliance here: https://juliareda.eu/2021/07/github-copilot-is-not-infringing-your-copyright/ So there are at least ways to go to understand how it complies or could comply to licenses or be liberated from licenses. > You're failing to see the full picture here. > It's absolutely vital for emacs' survival to > have GPT incorporated. Make it happen. I'm having a hard time following your proposal. I'm not sure what you're asking. But I am too old to understand it. Though it is not my age that matters. It is your experience, your knowledge, your education, your understanding, your wisdom. In all of these you and me have to be the best judge of what is good for you and me and what is not. The above paragraph was created by AI with small corrections. It says nothing just as the above quoted paragraph says nothing essential. "full picture", "absolutely vital", "Emacs survival", "Make it happen" -- that is sales pitch. And I am sales manager btw. That AI is useful in general, no need to convince me. Question was about licensing and I see that some activists like Julia Reda, which I have contacted previously in relation to copyright issues in EU, have found legal justifications for licensing compliance. That is what I wanted to know. The issue is however not closed with the assumptions of Julia Reda, as she may know EU laws, but not all jurisdictions are quite aligned, so we have still to be vigilant and follow up on that. IMHO, you should incorporate justifications used by Mrs. Reda in your commentary or README files with references so that licensing becomes clear for future readers. > > As soon as anything is published in public > > without compliance to licenses it generates > > problems. > Prompts are completely at the license of the > person who created it, even if they are > queries to GPT3. If prompts never appear in published works those are not relevant. If they do appear, their licensing compliance is assured by programmer or author. Even prompts could be coming from proprietary software. > My suggestions: > - Create prompts database > - So people can collaborate on open source prompts > - So people can extend emacs with language models > - So people know it's ok to use their imagination and emacs supports > creative intelligence > - Integrate prompt functions into emacs somehow? > - defprompt > - Optionally ship GPT-neo and GPT-j with emacs > - Consider creating a prompting server > - Consider a database for saving generations I find it all goods ideas, I just wish I could see more practical example: - prompts database, should be on the website? Where? Hosted by which party? Is it centralized or decentralized? - collaboration by which means? Email, chat? Website forum? How exactly? - I understand your 3rd point. - GPT-neo and GPT-j is how big? -- Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns In support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/