From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean Louis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.tangents Subject: Re: Help building Pen.el (GPT for emacs) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2021 14:32:00 +0300 Message-ID: References: <83im1948mj.fsf@gnu.org> <83lf642jeh.fsf@gnu.org> <83r1fp1es9.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="9306"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/2.0.7+183 (3d24855) (2021-05-28) Cc: stefan@marxist.se, emacs-tangents@gnu.org, mullikine@gmail.com, rms@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 23 13:35:53 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1m6tT7-0002Eg-4q for get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 23 Jul 2021 13:35:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48962 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m6tT6-0001HC-6L for get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 23 Jul 2021 07:35:52 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43460) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m6tSp-0001H3-OD for emacs-tangents@gnu.org; Fri, 23 Jul 2021 07:35:36 -0400 Original-Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:34947) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m6tSn-0005Sp-TP; Fri, 23 Jul 2021 07:35:35 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([::ffff:197.157.0.30]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.3,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 0000000000057F2B.0000000060FAA982.00001D07; Fri, 23 Jul 2021 04:35:30 -0700 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83r1fp1es9.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -3 X-Spam_score: -0.4 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=1.5, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-tangents@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other Emacs mailing lists List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-tangents" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.tangents:664 Archived-At: * Eli Zaretskii [2021-07-23 13:55]: > > Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2021 13:12:12 +0300 > > From: Jean Louis > > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Stefan Kangas , > > emacs-tangents@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org > > > > You are using artificial intelligence, but in fact pieces of codes are > > in chunks copied from other sources without attribution and without > > knowing if licenses are compatible. > > That's not what happens with these services: they don't _copy_ code > from other software (that won't work, because the probability of the > variables being called by other names is 100%, and thus such code, if > pasted into your program, will not compile). What they do, they > extract ideas and algorithms from those other places, and express them > in terms of your variables and your data types. So licenses are not > relevant here. According to online reviews chunks of code is copied even verbatim and people find from where. Even if modified, it still requires licensing compliance. If code compiles or not is irrelevant. If one runs it or not is also irrelevant, code need not even run. I do not believe that any of the AI-s so far "extract ideas". I never heard of it. Which algorithms is there on this planet that may extract idea? I also do not believe that AI extract algorithms, though AI has its own algorithms to generate the relevant possible code. If newly generated code is modification from other code, what we know now that it is, and is based on, that requires licensing attributions. That licenses are relevant one can see from online discussions related to Github Copilot: https://fossa.com/blog/analyzing-legal-implications-github-copilot/ https://medium.com/geekculture/githubs-ai-copilot-might-get-you-sued-if-you-use-it-c1cade1ea229 https://fosspost.org/github-copilot/ https://artificialintelligence-news.com/2021/07/06/experts-debate-github-latest-ai-tool-violates-copyright-law/ https://www.opensourceforu.com/2021/07/github-copilot-sparks-debates-around-open-source-licenses/ That is just a small excerpt from a very large debat online related to licensing issues. Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns In support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/