From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean Louis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.tangents Subject: Re: Emacs User Survey 2020 Results Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2020 11:57:38 +0300 Message-ID: References: <27f2aad6-2c1e-1127-bce6-5e96a241db56@gmx.com> <87a6umvgqg.fsf@gnus.org> <83h7os3h6y.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="29088"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/2.0 (3d08634) (2020-11-07) Cc: larsi@gnus.org, emacs-tangents@gnu.org, abrochard@gmx.com, Samuel Wales To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Dec 11 10:00:25 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kneHp-0007Rw-TW for get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 11 Dec 2020 10:00:25 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40210 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kneHo-0003J1-Tu for get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 11 Dec 2020 04:00:24 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47748) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kneHH-0003Hj-RW for emacs-tangents@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Dec 2020 03:59:51 -0500 Original-Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:54599) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kneHE-0006Na-6Q; Fri, 11 Dec 2020 03:59:50 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost ([::ffff:41.202.241.31]) (AUTH: PLAIN securesender, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 0000000000294E10.000000005FD33502.000013CC; Fri, 11 Dec 2020 01:59:45 -0700 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83h7os3h6y.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -8 X-Spam_score: -0.9 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URI_NO_WWW_INFO_CGI=1 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-tangents@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other Emacs mailing lists List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-tangents" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.tangents:480 Archived-At: * Eli Zaretskii [2020-12-11 11:01]: > > From: Samuel Wales > > Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2020 14:30:01 -0700 > > Cc: emacs-tangents@gnu.org, Adrien Brochard > > > > (as an analogy, if you go to a doctor who does not treat you, you will > > not go back to that doctor. but the doctor might think that you were > > cured because you did not go back. this is a serious problem in > > medicine.) > > But since we are not talking about one person, but many different > persons, it is still surprising that we don't get such bug reports, > because surely some of these persons may not know or assume up front > that these problems are unlikely to be fixed. It isn't like there's a > secret cabal of people who spread the idea that these problems are > unlikely to be fixed and therefore shouldn't be reported. The law or > large numbers should have won here. It is surprising that it didn't. When I was using Emacs on Redhat Linux back in 1999, if I remember well it was crashing in each session. And I have never reported those many many bugs neither to Redhat neiter to Emacs development. There were various versions of Emacs and I coped with it. Often I used other editors. Then when I started using Debian GNU/Linux I have not been reporting bugs probably for few years. I have just assumed it is not working well, but that I could do something about it was not clear. There will be whole series of users not being aware of it. Then later I have been reporting all Debian GNU/Linux related bugs only to Debian, straight there, and nowhere else. I have not even know that there is some central way to report bug. I remember that under Help there was menu item to report Emacs bug, but I have not used that interface, rather Debian interface. Maybe maintainers reported to upstream. Long time passed until I started reporting to Emacs and this is probably because I switched to Hyperbola GNU/Linux-libre and somebody directed me. Otherwise I was reporting to https://www.hyperbola.info anything related to Hyperbola packages as I was used from Debian this way. Look: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?dist=unstable;package=emacs https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?package=emacs-common https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?package=emacs-el https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?package=emacs-gtk https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?package=emacs-lucid https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?package=emacs-nox https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?package=emacs25 https://issues.hyperbola.info/index.php?string=emacs&project=0&do=index&type%5B%5D=&sev%5B%5D=&pri%5B%5D=&due%5B%5D=&reported%5B%5D=&cat%5B%5D=&status%5B%5D=open&percent%5B%5D=&opened=&dev=&closed=&duedatefrom=&duedateto=&changedfrom=&changedto=&openedfrom=&openedto=&closedfrom=&closedto= https://bugs.archlinux.org/index.php?string=emacs&project=1&search_in_comments=1&search_in_details=1&search_for_all=1&type%5B%5D=&sev%5B%5D=&pri%5B%5D=&due%5B%5D=&reported%5B%5D=&cat%5B%5D=&status%5B%5D=open&percent%5B%5D=&opened=&dev=&closed=&duedatefrom=&duedateto=&changedfrom=&changedto=&openedfrom=&openedto=&closedfrom=&closedto=&do=index https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu?field.searchtext=emacs&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch=&field.has_no_package=