From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean Louis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.tangents Subject: Re: [ELPA] New package: repology.el Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2021 11:49:19 +0300 Message-ID: References: <72871d3a-3b6a-d6fd-01cc-4248f817923c@yandex.ru> <801f93f3-8c1f-5f5f-6351-e1169bc309ae@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="8963"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/2.0 (3d08634) (2020-11-07) Cc: ams@gnu.org, emacs-tangents@gnu.org, Dmitry Gutov , Richard Stallman , ulm@gentoo.org To: Arthur Miller Original-X-From: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Jan 07 09:54:01 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kxR3Q-0001zZ-U5 for get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 07 Jan 2021 09:54:01 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35000 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kxR3P-0001kb-JV for get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 07 Jan 2021 03:53:59 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:42452) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kxR2z-0001kA-Mi for emacs-tangents@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Jan 2021 03:53:33 -0500 Original-Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:57397) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kxR2w-0005P5-8Q; Thu, 07 Jan 2021 03:53:33 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost ([::ffff:41.210.154.95]) (AUTH: PLAIN securesender, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 0000000000295449.000000005FF6CC06.00004579; Thu, 07 Jan 2021 01:53:25 -0700 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-tangents@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other Emacs mailing lists List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-tangents" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.tangents:487 Archived-At: * Arthur Miller [2021-01-06 23:36]: > > Who I am, or how I am is not subject of this. I do need to conform to > > yours or anybody's standards or classes of society. > Ok. Fair enough; as long as you don't demand other people to live up to > your standards. I am affraid by stigmatizing people for running some > software you are actually indirectly demanding them to live up to your > standards. (btw - I think you ment "I do not need ..." :-)) I am sending this to Emacs tangents, as I do not think it is related to package repology.el Every free software out there tells people something about liberty. It does not demand people to accept it. It teaches people and let them make their own choices. For many free software users there is no alternative, so that is the only standard in the sense you mention it. If it cannot be reached easily it may be reached step by step. > I am not promoting non-free software, but I am very pragmatic person. As > a curiosa, about me, I even went in a political party to promote > actually free software; because I thought we could save A LOTS of > taxpayers money in the long run, and could make the world a better place > if we invested in free software isntead of sending money out of the > contrey to Microsoft or Apple or other big tech Co:s. Great. And yet, free software is not money related. Example is NASA and US government that pays much money to produce free software. It is liberty related, not money. Producing free software may cost just equally as producing proprietary, I do not see difference there. Somebody does have to put their efforts, money, time, to program free software. The difference with expenses comes with liberty to distribute it without paying new license fees. > However dogmaticism and stigmaticism has never proven to be useful in > the long run. On contrary it is unproductive and potentially harmful. It > holds for every aspect of human life. I see nothing dogmatic neigher stigmatic about free software philosophy and so I cannot relate to those statements. And I cannot comprehend what you mean with "unproductive" and "potentially harmful". Maybe your statement is not related to free software, but if it is, I do not hold opinion that it is unproductive and potentially harmful, neither that promotion of free software is such. There is no general rule "for every aspect of human life" and if there would be one to discuss, maybe on some other mailing list or privately. > As a curiosa, I wonder what do you think, how much of medical software > that powers life-holding machines in hospitals is *Free*? Majority is probably proprietary. Terrible condition. > Should we erase all those chips and hardrives? We as a group of people on Emacs Devel mailing list, or who as "we"? I have no idea what you think with "we". This is maybe because I speak practically, always with practical ideas in mind. So I cannot relate to it. I can say that in Tanzania I have been promoting GNU Health, but it did not reach right people yet. We will reach. I can also say that practically and personally I have offered GNU Health and other hospital/privacy management software to those pharmacies I have personally met, they are very interested in adoption and we are still in conversation. So, in general terms, I think practically on how to change what I can change. That is not a demand, that is enlightenment about free software and helping people to switch. > What do you think about *that* unethical software? If proprietary software is used in health industry it is highly unethical. > Do we have alternative? There is no alternative to freedom. Alternative https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html#Alternative > I really wish nobody ever gets into a respiratory machine, but those > that end up there are probably thankful for whatever software runs > it. That is general statement. Generally answered, the opposite can be as well said, I would not like to be put on a machine where nobody was able to inspect the source code, verify it for safety and eventually improve it, or include collaborators to include it. Terrible idea. > Is it unethical to not jump in a lake and save a drowbing persons > life if you can't swim? That is so much tangent, hypothetical question that is not related to free software. In my opinion ethics is personal issue, moral is social issue. For me personally, if I could save somebody, I would jump or call other people to jointly help. If I cannot swim, I would say it would be unethical to try to save such person. All that is not related to the subject. > Pesonally, I wish we had only free software in this world; but until we > have, I am affraid a people in that circumstance are thankful to have > whatever there is. I can say I am not thankful as I find proprietary software abusive, coercive, controlling, so I cannot be thankful for that. Jean