From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean Louis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.tangents Subject: Re: why conflict [Was: Re: no to war in Ukraine] Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2022 06:01:01 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87ee3p4xn4.fsf@zoho.eu> <87czj7gpyp.fsf@gmail.com> <5132354.M1jKaovQIP@galex-713.eu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="8117"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Max Brieiev To: emacs-tangents@gnu.org, Alexandre Garreau Original-X-From: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Mar 01 07:01:42 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nOvZt-0001uP-Q1 for get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 01 Mar 2022 07:01:41 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53086 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nOvZs-0001tR-3H for get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 01 Mar 2022 01:01:40 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:49372) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nOvZQ-0001tE-Mm for emacs-tangents@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Mar 2022 01:01:12 -0500 Original-Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:55307) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nOvZO-00062a-Tn for emacs-tangents@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Mar 2022 01:01:12 -0500 Original-Received: from [102.82.28.32] ([::ffff:102.82.28.32]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.3,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_CHACHA20_POLY1305) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 0000000000087C41.00000000621DB6A3.00002139; Mon, 28 Feb 2022 23:01:06 -0700 In-Reply-To: <5132354.M1jKaovQIP@galex-713.eu> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-tangents@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other Emacs mailing lists List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-tangents" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.tangents:797 Archived-At: Big statements there, with zero references=2E This is not conspiracy websit= e=2E On February 28, 2022 3:22:31 PM UTC, Alexandre Garreau wrote: >> And that would imply that Putin is really mad men and is now coming >to >> attack Ukraine for which real reason? You tell us please=2E > >Because russians are so tired of him and he=E2=80=99s getting old and afr= aid of >loosing control, so=20 >he launches his last card and plays everything in=2E > >Ukraine, along with Finland and Sweden (which he threatened too) are >worrying=20 >counterexample of liberalism and better situation to most of russians=2E= =20 >And most of=20 >russians are aware of this=2E > >Moreover: speaking russian in ukraine is easy, many people understand >russian there (I=20 >keep hearing that russian propaganda stating people are being >threatened for speaking=20 >russian there is wrong, from mostly russians leaving there; and to have >mostly spoke=20 >russian myself in ukraine i can confirm); if a russian moves there, not >only they can keep=20 >speaking their language, but they can most easily learn the local one >as it is most similar,=20 >pretty easy and even somewhat more regular and rational=2E > >So that WAS a really nice place, and the easiest one, for russians to >escape=2E The conflict=20 >since its beginning (before war) is itself is a mere excuse to avoid >that to happen (as=20 >russian men has been forbidden to go there before)=2E There is to some >degree hypocrit=20 >collaboration between russian and ukrainian elites (who btw both have >stakes and=20 >properties and capital in each others=E2=80=99 country) for that sake: >artificially separating as much=20 >as possible two countries with so friendly and similar people with each >other=2E There have=20 >been, on both side, support to the far right, neonazis, etc=2E A lot >more so from putin=E2=80=99s side:=20 >most of the far rights and neonazis are funded by him in Europe=2E=20 >French far right is backed=20 >by Putin=2E Hungary and Poland, worst situations in europe, are because >of Putin=2E Our=20 >increasing commitment to methane, because of our abandonment of >carbonclean nuclear=20 >(and also the subsequent increasing reliement on coal) is also Putin=E2= =80=99s >fault=2E This is not only=20 >threatening Russia, Ukraine, Europe, but the whole planet=E2=80=99s citiz= ens=2E > >That was okay as long as it only meant for ukraine to give up on >helping and welcoming=20 >russians=2E Now it=E2=80=99s not enough anymore=2E The internet is maki= ng the >people increasingly=20 >powerful and aware of whatever freedom exists elsewhere and they could >get=2E > >The same sospokenabout situation of =C2=ABif we lower taxes the powerfuls >are gonna escape=C2=BB=20 >is there happening inversely: if you help the powerful, the actual >people will see it and=20 >wanna leave=2E This always have been true, it is called migration=2E=20 >Migration is a threat to=20 >oppression, and border its solution: a threat to freedom=2E Free >circulation of wealth good to=20 >the wealthiests and their wealth, free circulation of people good to >the people and their=20 >freedom=2E > >Wars, soldiers, militaries, aggressions, these all reinforce borders=2E > >What inspired me mostly: >https://nitter=2Efdn=2Efr/jmkorhonen/status/1496047631969234944[1]=20 > >Please remember we have to keep in favor of freedom, and that means >against aggression,=20 >against censorship, surveillance, proprietary software=2E If you ever >feel these could locally=20 >or temporarily used to fight oppression, you are tricked=2E > >-------- >[1] https://nitter=2Efdn=2Efr/jmkorhonen/status/1496047631969234944 Jean