From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Aldric Giacomoni Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.tangents Subject: Re: Privileges and practicalities [was: Re: [ELPA] New package: repology.el] Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2021 07:51:53 -0500 Message-ID: References: <87zh1jag72.fsf@gkayaalp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000aa3af05b8630683" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="39841"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-tangents@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, ulm@gentoo.org, ams@gnu.org, arthur.miller@live.com, dgutov@yandex.ru, =?UTF-8?B?R8O2a3R1xJ8gS2F5YWFscA==?= , Eli Zaretskii To: Jean Louis Original-X-From: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Jan 08 13:52:25 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kxrFg-000ACV-0v for get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 08 Jan 2021 13:52:24 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43632 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kxrFe-0007kl-Ky for get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 08 Jan 2021 07:52:22 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:33320) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kxrFS-0007kB-WF for emacs-tangents@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jan 2021 07:52:11 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-il1-x12b.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::12b]:34640) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kxrFR-0006QJ-3q; Fri, 08 Jan 2021 07:52:10 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-il1-x12b.google.com with SMTP id x15so10161889ilq.1; Fri, 08 Jan 2021 04:52:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=uWpizYwc6kK4YlXVmO+EjmtFWiJqR2C/GsTAwSWoIE4=; b=Tjqoo/iZKkHEIc1S5tkzcCYCTXftDxbE9NeM2uaCvvAhucxuvAxuLSdqokuLviIW3r tOxWP2apoBHr/rrD1LF8C05JrL43Ej09ciMWYS3DqWxjH4/WusFKtyWMwEVdr73mY080 dCCmNuHqq8c3UPlshzvRaFD2f+GEDFk8jkeyGZDxi5h0A39kJtz6WfFDUmfnnqHW6xlj 0/y4dsb40M4Cab2szU6gfB2/P2uhmAO7BM6KrcLC+Xj4i/CWwaqVNNpHKIbDZ8fAgT70 nGc4HrYNFM44nnsB7Siml7W9RfTfNUsWjMqKU/T48lq/cxmy8htZuOhq/kOR5L89/U+0 hP+g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=uWpizYwc6kK4YlXVmO+EjmtFWiJqR2C/GsTAwSWoIE4=; b=i5GkdmginQeD5p5qhe7erTdJcrU5D/QVSw/fmzjHgVx2AZVDn9trRQOMU6R982JfZk fp2nVhe+tXE0ecGJ0lru1g8ivYChPa40Emafal4lbzlomkHXpuHlktqBsoQnNdF8xPUO OCHiSbnIcS9oDdP3U5pB+xsNbbuCA/E3sXrXmSuA4D1qeXwJC0J7f+iY0gPlk1KqHqVn vqYjYuU8sIO+kURkoQKu5AZehRnJ/vYnd9zM1e3AZ5hXuTm8hTEq8rjTDyugR0hVG4nC DmBoJIyyPULvY7gvKzYPfGJRGK6bk+iGGzGhE3FMYvNlrhb1Om6vTl7OCkGtCbpJ3AMg YDRg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532ejeYrP9Dw5alUxD3L3Vr1LbRWD1so2FBpbnp7s9hDaSnM9S1i 72liiIu1YziOxBOvlnGQbtNvzIfz42KeYdL2zkA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxBgafeoEj83t/wsi0ie1JYoeGX/tzir4mDdfeSLwmnbYKVL95yYK9t7lFkEK/3uKmn5B48rRzu0sC6eMe548w= X-Received: by 2002:a92:7b07:: with SMTP id w7mr3606920ilc.78.1610110326185; Fri, 08 Jan 2021 04:52:06 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::12b; envelope-from=trevoke@gmail.com; helo=mail-il1-x12b.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-tangents@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other Emacs mailing lists List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-tangents" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.tangents:517 Archived-At: --0000000000000aa3af05b8630683 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable *sigh* It should be a basic human right. That isn't the current reality. It is currently a privilege. Many good folks are working very hard to transform this privilege into a basic human right. Are we done trolling yet? > Your statements are too general and I do not see how they relate It's okay don't worry about it. Your point of view is the only correct one, so don't work too hard in exploring other people's. -- Aldric. Sent from a mobile device. On Fri, Jan 8, 2021, 06:46 Jean Louis wrote: > > > > >Free software is a privilege, as it is. It requires a lot of knowledge > >about computing praxis and culture, internet culture, legal stuff, and > >politics. > > How privilege? I don't see how is free software privilege. Not for me. It > should be basic human right for users to have control of their data, and > not to let other companies or individuals control my data. > > Better said proprietary software is mischievous unfortunate degrading > event of human history and we are working to the reverse it. > > >It=E2=80=99s fundamental and inevitable and unavoidable for free softwar= e to > >interact and cooperate with non-free software, if such a goal is not > >limited to the use cases of some privileged hackers. > > We have fully free software that need not ever interact or cooperate with > non free. So I don't know where you pull out that anti information. Just > start with www.gnu.org to find software that never ever need to cooperate > with proprietary software. > > > >Most software, > >and > >most of popular software is closed source. > > I did not count to say so. But what is popular it does not matter in GNU > project, what matters is that we do have fully free software and operatin= g > systems. > > >Most users of software > >_cannot_ avoid non-free software. > > Whoever is informed well and decides so themselves can switch to fully > free software. People make decisions on their own. > > GNU project is everything else but not ivory tower. Otherwise you would > not be able to discuss here. > > What GNU project promotes is free software. GNU never says to its users > to use exclusively free software and never condemns people for using > proprietary software. > > I thus do not see where is problem. > > Your statements are too general and I do not see how they relate. > > > > --0000000000000aa3af05b8630683 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
*sigh*

It sh= ould be a basic human right. That isn't the current reality. It is curr= ently a privilege. Many good folks are working very hard to transform this = privilege into a basic human right.

Are we done trolling yet?

>=C2=A0Your statements are too general and I do not see how they relate

It's okay don't worry about it. = Your point of view is the only correct one, so don't work too hard in e= xploring other people's.
--

Aldric.
Sent from a mobile device.

On Fri, Jan 8, 2021, 06:46 Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support> wrot= e:



>Free software is a privilege, as it is.=C2=A0 It requires a lot of know= ledge
>about computing praxis and culture, internet culture, legal stuff, and<= br> >politics.=C2=A0

How privilege? I don't see how is free software privilege. Not for me. = It should be basic human right for users to have control of their data, and= not to let other companies or individuals control my data.

Better said proprietary software is mischievous unfortunate degrading event= of human history and we are working to the reverse it.

>It=E2=80=99s fundamental and inevitable and unavoidable for free softwa= re to
>interact and cooperate with non-free software, if such a goal is not >limited to the use cases of some privileged hackers.=C2=A0

We have fully free software that need not ever interact or cooperate with n= on free. So I don't know where you pull out that anti information. Just= start with www.gnu.org to find software that never ever= need to cooperate with proprietary software.


>Most software,
>and
>most of popular software is closed source.=C2=A0

I did not count to say so. But what is popular it does not matter in GNU pr= oject, what matters is that we do have fully free software and operating sy= stems.

>Most users of software
>_cannot_ avoid non-free software.

Whoever is informed well and decides so themselves can switch to fully free= software. People make decisions on their own.

GNU project is everything else but not ivory tower. Otherwise you would not= be able to discuss here.

=C2=A0What GNU project promotes is free software. GNU never says to its use= rs to use exclusively free software and never condemns people for using pro= prietary software.

I thus do not see where is problem.

Your statements are too general and I do not see how they relate.



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