From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Arthur Miller Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.tangents Subject: Re: [ELPA] New package: repology.el Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 14:35:34 +0100 Message-ID: References: <6193374b-a60d-ba82-91b5-afdede18e3bb@yandex.ru> <72871d3a-3b6a-d6fd-01cc-4248f817923c@yandex.ru> <801f93f3-8c1f-5f5f-6351-e1169bc309ae@yandex.ru> <83k0sp27f6.fsf@gnu.org> <83wnwolu2i.fsf@gnu.org> <835z48lf21.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="28585"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-tangents@gnu.org, bugs@gnu.support, ulm@gentoo.org, ams@gnu.org, dgutov@yandex.ru, eliz@gnu.org To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Jan 11 14:36:38 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kyxN7-0007HQ-V4 for get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org; 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envelope-from=arthur.miller@live.com; helo=EUR04-HE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-tangents@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other Emacs mailing lists List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-tangents" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.tangents:569 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > How do you really imagin 'not-ignoring' something but never > > mentioning it? Are you going to secretely at home study it in some > > way bet never telling anyone? In that case you are buildin g a > > stigma around it. > > I think you're arguing against a purely theoretical paradox. Maybe, I am not 100%, I am just trying to reason about the issue. I think it would indeed be a theoretical paradox only, unless some people didn't interpreted the guidelines so strictly that it not become a practical issue. I think the guidelines should be re-worked slightly. > If you look at the References node, and read what we actually do, > you'll see that it is practical and clear. To be sure we speak about same text I'll paste a link: https://www.gnu.org/prep/standards/html_node/References.html > You might still disagree with it, but at least you'll be disagreeing > with something real. I have red them before, a few days ago too. I don't disagree with them in principle; I just think there are some slight problems with the text; As I understand the goal of the text is to ensure GNU is not actively promoting non-free software, which I completely support and agree. I think the problem at hand here is how we, or some people, define actively promoting something. Is a mere reference to existence a promotion of something? Remember your email about renaming Emacs repo from master to main, it was a week or two ago. You wrote something about words and meaning, I don't have the link to it now, so I can cite you, but I think same reasoning applies here. For the theoretical paradox: I am not sure if it is just a paradox. We should always be very careful when we encounter a paradox. Paradoxes does not exist in nature. When we see something as a paradox the problem is always in our understanding of the nature (mathematical, physical, philosophical, etc) or imperfection of human interpretaion of the world. The problem here is that in philosophical issues (which I think this is: an ethical question); we have to be consistent. We can't have a rule that applies and not applies; a fact can not be truth and false at same time. Thus if we are going to have a rule that guide our actions we need to be consistent. I don't think that in real life we have such rigiourus consistency as we can have in logics or mathematics, but for those cases where we can't formulate such rule, we should clearly state when rule applies. I think the paradox here arises because the text itself leaves a little bit more for the interpretation than it should, and we have people arguing here what is promotion and what is not. Maybe more clear description of what is considered promoting is needed. Maybe even taking a step back and relaxing a rule on what is legitimate and what not. In some previous mail you answered you had no problems with medical hardware running non-free blobs. In order to be consistent in philosophical sense, you should have problem with it. And if your philosophy asks you to refuse all non-ethical (non-free software) then you should refuse to use such machine. I don't think that is what you suggest to anyone or would practice yourself but I think the philosophy should maybe be a bit more clear about it. Observe, I am just trying to reason about this. I might be wrong, so please, I would be glad to what I understand wrong and the arguments.