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envelope-from=arthur.miller@live.com; helo=EUR04-VI1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-tangents@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other Emacs mailing lists List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-tangents" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.tangents:561 Archived-At: --_000_AM0PR06MB65775D2DAC7493B07BFAFDDE96AC0AM0PR06MB6577eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Researching nonfree software is usually a bad thing to do, because people generally do it so as to use or develop nonfree software. On the other hand, if it is to help replace those nonfree programs, that is a good thing." Knifes are bad thing because they are used to hurt people. But if they are used to slice bread and potatoes, that is a good thing. A tool has no moral value in itself. Not even an action The moral value is in the eye of beholder. (I think it was D. Hume first). Sounds it would be very difficult for any GNU developer to replace a feature in or entire non-free appliction if they are not allowed to even mention that application or use it etc. I think there is an instrinsical value in using Free software. I don't think people need prohibitions to achieve transition toward openess. I see general tendency toward openess in the society. However, I believe human psychology must be taken into consi- deration for success of any project of life-style matter, which I perceive GNU is. I believe that refusal to not even mention by name or a reference to non-free software will sound rather extreme to many people, and might even turn away some. It is also practially less useful than to be able to refer to something in order to at least condemn it or study it. I believe that it is a much better strategy to offer people a better choice. ________________________________ Fr=E5n: Richard Stallman Skickat: den 9 januari 2021 07:37 Till: Alfred M. Szmidt Kopia: dgutov@yandex.ru ; eliz@gnu.org ; bu= gs@gnu.support ; arthur.miller@live.com ; ulm@gentoo.org ; emacs-tangents@gnu.org =C4mne: Re: [ELPA] New package: repology.el [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > You are exagerating. Nobody is saying don't do research, I'm quit= e > > sure you are capable of finding that information on your own. But= it > > is a different thing for GNU do provide that information for you. > But GNU software shouldn't help me in research? > In the research of non-free software, obviously no. I think that oversimplifies the situation. You can use GNU software to do anything. You can use IceCat to read about nonfree programs on the web, look at their repos on GitHub, look at info about them in repology.org -- anything at all. You can use GCC to compile them, too. Researching nonfree software is usually a bad thing to do, because people generally do it so as to use or develop nonfree software. On the other hand, if it is to help replace those nonfree programs, that is a good thing. GNU programs don't try to judge the morality of whatever you are doing. They do what you command. The issue about repology.org is not about that. It is whether we should tell the public about its existence, for instance by including in Emacs a program specifically aimed at that site. -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) --_000_AM0PR06MB65775D2DAC7493B07BFAFDDE96AC0AM0PR06MB6577eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
"Researching nonfree s= oftware is usually a bad thing to do, because
people generally do it so as to use or develop nonfree software.  On the other hand, if it is to help replace those nonfree programs, that
is a good thing."

Knifes are bad thing becaus= e they are used to hurt people. But if they
are used to slice bread and= potatoes, that is a good thing.

A tool has no moral value i= n itself. Not even an action The moral value
is in the eye of beholder. = (I think it was D. Hume first).

Sounds it would be very dif= ficult for any GNU developer to replace
a feature in or entire non-= free appliction if they are not allowed to
even mention that applicati= on or use it etc.

I think there is an instrin= sical value in using Free software. I don't
think people need prohibiti= ons to achieve transition toward
openess. I see general tend= ency toward openess in the society.

However, I believe human ps= ychology must be taken into consi-
deration for success of any= project of life-style matter, which I
perceive GNU is. I believe = that refusal to not even mention by name
or a reference to non-free = software will sound rather extreme to
many people, and might even= turn away some. It is also practially
less useful than to be able= to refer to something in order to at
least condemn it or study i= t.

I believe that it is a much= better strategy to offer people a better
choice.
Fr=E5n: Richard Stallman &l= t;rms@gnu.org>
Skickat: den 9 januari 2021 07:37
Till: Alfred M. Szmidt <ams@gnu.org>
Kopia: dgutov@yandex.ru <dgutov@yandex.ru>; eliz@gnu.org <e= liz@gnu.org>; bugs@gnu.support <bugs@gnu.support>; arthur.miller@l= ive.com <arthur.miller@live.com>; ulm@gentoo.org <ulm@gentoo.org&g= t;; emacs-tangents@gnu.org <emacs-tangents@gnu.org>
=C4mne: Re: [ELPA] New package: repology.el
 
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: pl= ease consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,  &= nbsp;  ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  >    > You are exagerating.  Nobody is say= ing don't do research, I'm quite
  >    > sure you are capable of finding that inf= ormation on your own.  But it
  >    > is a different thing for GNU do provide = that information for you.

  >    But GNU software shouldn't help me in researc= h?

  > In the research of non-free software, obviously no.

I think that oversimplifies the situation.

You can use GNU software to do anything.  You can use IceCat to read about nonfree programs on the web, look at their repos on GitHub, look
at info about them in repology.org -- anything at all.  You can use GC= C
to compile them, too.

Researching nonfree software is usually a bad thing to do, because
people generally do it so as to use or develop nonfree software.  On the other hand, if it is to help replace those nonfree programs, that
is a good thing.

GNU programs don't try to judge the morality of whatever you are
doing.  They do what you command.

The issue about repology.org is not about that.  It is whether we
should tell the public about its existence, for instance by including
in Emacs a program specifically aimed at that site.



--
Dr Richard Stallman
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu= .org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.= org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://= internethalloffame.org)


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