From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?G=C3=B6ktu=C4=9F_Kayaalp?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.tangents Subject: Privileges and practicalities [was: Re: [ELPA] New package: repology.el] Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2021 13:14:25 +0300 Message-ID: <87zh1jag72.fsf@gkayaalp.com> References: <83sg7bkiz6.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="21887"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-tangents@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, bugs@gnu.support, ulm@gentoo.org, ams@gnu.org, arthur.miller@live.com, dgutov@yandex.ru To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Jan 08 11:14:52 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kxonE-0005Wt-7r for get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 08 Jan 2021 11:14:52 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39676 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kxonC-0000Dg-Sh for get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 08 Jan 2021 05:14:50 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55878) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kxon1-0000DO-Pj for emacs-tangents@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jan 2021 05:14:39 -0500 Original-Received: from relay3-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.195]:58843) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kxomz-0006Qv-Dt; Fri, 08 Jan 2021 05:14:39 -0500 X-Originating-IP: 176.217.158.217 Original-Received: from localhost (unknown [176.217.158.217]) (Authenticated sender: self@gkayaalp.com) by relay3-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B304560014; Fri, 8 Jan 2021 10:14:26 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <83sg7bkiz6.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Fri, 08 Jan 2021 09:04:13 +0200) Received-SPF: none client-ip=217.70.183.195; envelope-from=self@gkayaalp.com; helo=relay3-d.mail.gandi.net X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-tangents@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other Emacs mailing lists List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-tangents" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.tangents:510 Archived-At: On 2021-01-08 09:04 +02, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: "Alfred M. Szmidt" >> > You are exagerating. Nobody is saying don't do research, I'm quite >> > sure you are capable of finding that information on your own. But = it >> > is a different thing for GNU do provide that information for you. >> But GNU software shouldn't help me in research? >> In the research of non-free software, obviously no. > [... snip ...] It would be ironic if the GNU project prevented its > followers from exercising the same freedom, by denying us the > information about where to find that source code to begin with. Well said. All freedoms are both limited and ensured by other freedoms and the practicalities of the world we=E2=80=99re in, and a lot of talk here actively ignores that in some weird and sad doublethink fashion. Free software is a privilege, as it is. It requires a lot of knowledge about computing praxis and culture, internet culture, legal stuff, and politics. Not everyone knows these stuff and it is not easy to learn this stuff well. You need to invest a lot of time, which is increasingly more scarce for most of the world, even for formerly privileged folk. People can hardly find time for recreative and/or social activities. I assume the first and foremost principle of GNU and FSF would be to have software freedom prevail for all. That=E2=80=99s a good cause and one= I can get behind as an individual. It=E2=80=99s fundamental and inevitable and unavoidable for free software to interact and cooperate with non-free software, if such a goal is not limited to the use cases of some privileged hackers. Most software, and most of popular software is closed source. Most users of software _cannot_ avoid non-free software. By witholding vital information regarding integration/interaction with a mostly non-free world, information _that we HAVE_ from most people on Earth that use computers, we are but comdeming them to non-free software. And we are doing what politicians do: ignoring the real problems of the people we think we=E2=80= =99re helping as we enjoy our privileges atop our ivory towers, and an abyss grows between our reality and the reality of the greater world. Such an attitude reeks of hubris and privilege and disconnect and a distinct lack of empathy. And that=E2=80=99s not only off putting but also creates concrete obstructions for wide spread adoption of FOSS, which in turn means software freedom is one that only a tiny cabal out of all people can enjoy. If software freedom is instead to be a human right and free software is to be accessible to all, a great stepping stone would be to cooperate with the non-free world so excellently as to render the virtues and advantages of FOSS indubitably and unmistakably obvious to even non-technical users. Perfect is the enemy of good. Purism contaminates. Elitism breeds ignorance and malice. I want to be brief about this, what I=E2=80=99m telling should hopefully be clear but if not I can follow up with a more concrete writeup a few days later when I=E2=80=99ll have more ample time. --=20 =C4=B0. G=C3=B6ktu=C4=9F Kayaalp / @cadadr / pgp: 024C 30DD 597D 142B 49AC 40EB 465C D949 B101 2427