From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: dick Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.tangents Subject: Time to dial back the dialectic? [was: Re: Privileges and practicalities] Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2021 09:46:49 -0400 Message-ID: <87lf383nsm.fsf_-_@dick> References: <87wnwn9r2l.fsf@gkayaalp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="16856"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.14 (Gnus v5.14) Commercial/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-tangents@gnu.org To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 04 16:07:37 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mXOcz-0004GS-2E for get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 04 Oct 2021 16:07:37 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48066 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mXOcy-00062X-1i for get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 04 Oct 2021 10:07:36 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38302) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mXOIx-0005W3-PO for emacs-tangents@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Oct 2021 09:46:58 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-qt1-x835.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::835]:35529) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mXOIv-0006Ok-5J; Mon, 04 Oct 2021 09:46:54 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-qt1-x835.google.com with SMTP id c20so15869009qtb.2; Mon, 04 Oct 2021 06:46:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=M325OVimm6i5bG6tL2yY/MdDnobcyv39GQWqL0oNwlg=; b=qh+X6RO0ed37kyMF6mNsakdJ25toUpaCbA8AB9AWSAbVOlUOBcCznwlCLZZPXd7SWX e7JrJEX9yQ+6mMV5QtUSa/93CAggjJW8cGaJ/ZssFN/XLHKNP7kF9hz6q1GHPx6Ew7DG B6yrVkUoP1lkF3VmK/qTycpk3vv5o5AwG361oQR9ijsVo0lVbutzTl33TYOEoTnnKBd4 mdIM/Nz33wC9tQO3r2K1k4c+yF1lzOINnhiF7dQm27Quq/TlHdXdGhhjTLRZAbH4DYb1 WMw5nFyCxKHdVtl9A0qQwuS94L+haiklNc0Wd63D0nkle3irpKwxr0LVXDbDwmLCgQXV 2WrA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=M325OVimm6i5bG6tL2yY/MdDnobcyv39GQWqL0oNwlg=; b=ozmwH7JbM60c13PcyPVfMMl4E3uEPo3TUCWC2HI9daZe2kFs5D9fZteJ4g3bDx37H+ NCnxogKt7Ojmk6rrQqbCLDv18qsRbE1folhP3mKqsIiOOiNkWJQ7zL6uOtKiFITFEsvJ uTebnjwR3utOzlaLeu7s2lP//7kYiZBhIRIdnKB3og9Nzt/YFJ0DMlBLhIMY9y6UP6UG 4w0LpNShgsqnrPbfhoLCBCJeqkFWVXGe3qRB2kYkjf25ypr16+eJmYkNKsNZsLKRu674 sr64VOIvfMXXifWWP+KqABwRK9oEC59raVevYBLFeXQJVr1Xm0wzj1FGuKoJAHXh7DCN +8Dg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533WjKr5r/YLI92K+N7xlIUoFEu4WV9s94D4mNKIxhQMLoc0UzDD xcioJ+kGxWCuyxdKIq7Ej5QnErLbO4c= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxti3TmZSIbSCa+X1hxb6vpOk+NU0dcNXHKO73U9wAWB0a/XMsPjOx65G1HMzGsr7MLN5Iweg== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:5f13:: with SMTP id x19mr13769007qta.305.1633355210089; Mon, 04 Oct 2021 06:46:50 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from localhost ([68.237.93.126]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k19sm8202124qko.115.2021.10.04.06.46.49 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Mon, 04 Oct 2021 06:46:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Sat, 09 Jan 2021 01:41:17 -0500") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::835; envelope-from=dick.r.chiang@gmail.com; helo=mail-qt1-x835.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 04 Oct 2021 10:05:49 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-tangents@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other Emacs mailing lists List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-tangents" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.tangents:736 Archived-At: herr Doctor, I'd wager the hundred or so guys who identify most with GNU would, if a referendum were taken, say that: 1. Non-free is not an injustice, 2. *Gratis* is far and away more important to our users than *libre*, and 3. Non-free software can be used without compunction to improve our own *free* software, and in countless ways, already does. In other words, I'll book an emission-intensive flight to the climate conference if it means I don't have to join Greta on her toilet-less trans-Atlantic catamaran. I presume NonGNU Elpa was your idea, and it was the right one. Now we just need to take that initiative to its logical conclusion.