From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.tangents Subject: Re: Is ChatGTP SaaSS? (was: [NonGNU ELPA] New package: llm) Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2023 00:52:01 +0200 Message-ID: <87fs3qoqy6.fsf@dataswamp.org> References: <87v8d0iqa5.fsf@posteo.net> <87cyz3vaws.fsf@localhost> <87a5tzsbvl.fsf@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="26772"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) To: emacs-tangents@gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:hiB4gHIjKC4X5UI5cwBqudq+X0w= Original-X-From: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 07 06:57:04 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qe74h-0006nT-M8 for get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2023 06:57:03 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qe74c-0001rm-5I; Thu, 07 Sep 2023 00:56:58 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qe1Ng-0002xM-RO for emacs-tangents@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Sep 2023 18:52:16 -0400 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qe1Ne-0004XS-9o for emacs-tangents@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Sep 2023 18:52:16 -0400 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qe1Na-0001kR-FJ for emacs-tangents@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2023 00:52:10 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-tangents@gnu.org Mail-Copies-To: never Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 07 Sep 2023 00:56:54 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-tangents@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other Emacs mailing lists List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.tangents:1052 Archived-At: Ihor Radchenko wrote: >>>> As for LLMs that run on servers, they are a different >>>> issue entirely. They are all SaaSS (Service as a Software >>>> Substitute), and SaaSS is always unjust. >>>> >>>> See >>>> https://gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.html >>>> for explanation. >>> >>> I do not fully agree here. A number of more powerful LLMs >>> have very limiting hardware requirements. For example, >>> some LLMs require 64+Gbs of RAM to run: >> >> That is true, and it is unfortunate. There may be no >> practical way to run a certain model except for SaaSS. >> >> That does not alter the injustice of SaaSS. So we should >> not silence our criticism of SaaSS in those cases, > > This is a rather theoretical consideration, but, talking > about ChatGTP (owned by OpenAI) specifically, should it even > be considered SaaSS? Can't we, i.e. GNU, offer a server where you can run FOSS programs that offer services? Wouldn't that be "their" software to people who use it? They could improve the software like any other FOSS project and, if necessary even, fork it to also run on the server alongside. -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal