From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tassilo Horn Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.tangents Subject: Re: (*) -> 1 Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2023 09:52:16 +0100 Message-ID: <87edrplgee.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87h6wpkrlq.fsf@web.de> <87zgahj7h3.fsf@web.de> <878rhzvs1h.fsf@web.de> <87ilh28w9u.fsf@web.de> <87r0vqa67k.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="10565"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.9.16; emacs 30.0.50 Cc: emacs-tangents@gnu.org To: Jean Louis Original-X-From: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Jan 20 10:11:46 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pInR3-0002XX-O0 for get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 20 Jan 2023 10:11:46 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pInQl-0003Zu-Rg; Fri, 20 Jan 2023 04:11:27 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pInQk-0003Xg-NX for emacs-tangents@gnu.org; Fri, 20 Jan 2023 04:11:26 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pInQk-0005oE-CU; Fri, 20 Jan 2023 04:11:26 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:In-reply-to:Date:Subject:To:From: References; bh=brFyxVM6CTDWjWaatSwDold+AUR++yBb3TzCNJhvD68=; b=ORv4bxblu1g7N1 PxwCTh6w3Fs9Kg5vlUK40tm1c9kBHF5+WwpXuVw470mEfmA29+5Iq2Ft9S4BBuVqY5osWSKH7u4W7 UxQENfbhCmtk295h9rM88fjP1eq14RKwaMLU374yimTEQOjOvo5AdWqtCe/NJ1M7I+SaTUoNi2JY0 ojkQ1uO9lI70gCkb26etEEZ8DfcUjTLaHGhVM8yCmwEM68zXBygvRF7+pqIx90TViXjzlu26e/kpp PtZ2x39vPl3y9cTNT2ZecsFkOnKpfZU5okAEUy3xnnmUXogjL5oGPnQ7h5MQyYlmg5/AQCdlgbwLg gdErXZBmFRXWetU9WtuQ==; Original-Received: from auth1-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.227]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pInQk-0001eV-3K; Fri, 20 Jan 2023 04:11:26 -0500 Original-Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailauth.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3AD527C005B; Fri, 20 Jan 2023 04:11:24 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 20 Jan 2023 04:11:24 -0500 X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvhedrudduvdcutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurf hrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecuuegr ihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepfhgfhffvvefuffgjkfggtgesthdtredttd ertdenucfhrhhomhepvfgrshhsihhlohcujfhorhhnuceothhsughhsehgnhhurdhorhhg qeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeehfeehgeelkedvfffggfduheetffffledtgfelieelje ejtddviedtueefgeegvdenucffohhmrghinhepfihikhhiphgvughirgdrohhrghenucev lhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehthhhorhhnod hmvghsmhhtphgruhhthhhpvghrshhonhgrlhhithihqdekieejfeekjeekgedqieefhedv leekqdhtshguhheppehgnhhurdhorhhgsehfrghsthhmrghilhdrfhhm X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: ib2b94485:Fastmail Original-Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Fri, 20 Jan 2023 04:11:24 -0500 (EST) In-reply-to: X-BeenThere: emacs-tangents@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other Emacs mailing lists List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.tangents:968 Archived-At: Jean Louis writes: >> Gosh, Jean, of course nobody would literally write (*) but (apply #'* >> ...), and you'll find occurrences in emacs: > > That has been said that is not necessarily problem or reason. I don't understand that sentence. > Did you see reference to PicoLisp? Yes, and I think it's seriously wrong with : (+) -> NIL where its docs say Returns the sum of all num arguments. When one of the arguments evaluates to NIL, it is returned immediately. Well, in (+) there exists no argument evaluating to NIL and mathematically, the sum of zero numbers is 0 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empty_sum). Same for the empty product (*) which should be 1 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empty_sum) but also gives NIL in picolisp. So why does it return NIL? And why do you apparently consider that useful? And can something be useful even though it is incorrect? Bye, Tassilo