From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philip Kaludercic Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.tangents Subject: Re: Help building Pen.el (GPT for emacs) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2021 09:31:38 +0000 Message-ID: <87a6mc12it.fsf@posteo.net> References: <83im1948mj.fsf@gnu.org> <83lf642jeh.fsf@gnu.org> <83r1fp1es9.fsf@gnu.org> <837dhg1a1l.fsf@gnu.org> <87czr89n1a.fsf@posteo.net> <83y29wywfg.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="11949"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: stefan@marxist.se, emacs-tangents@gnu.org, mullikine@gmail.com, rms@gnu.org, bugs@gnu.support To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Jul 24 13:20:49 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1m7Fi5-0002yA-BD for get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 24 Jul 2021 13:20:49 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55346 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m7Fi4-0002vO-Cz for get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 24 Jul 2021 07:20:48 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:36092) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m7E0X-0004yf-QZ for emacs-tangents@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Jul 2021 05:31:45 -0400 Original-Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:49753) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m7E0U-0008WD-Bw for emacs-tangents@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Jul 2021 05:31:45 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E23D024002B for ; Sat, 24 Jul 2021 11:31:39 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1627119099; bh=OPCl4X+B+mqZyCpkQFsFYZJJpxdqkxBb4eyyzvrfhSE=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Autocrypt:Date:From; b=P5itGBZXVVoNB3m6/OTKWhVqy1Y3OpGYLbgwfcSzDfMPSRo4aUFj5s9/a9oNlKjDw RDtG6iD5Ot+475/SwLULt3JGfLtjg+/WWU6TghpKUlEJTN80wOKCYHPAasINdziHPQ mS0CUu1PR0qM5U9opFgHGB8XMNG5uwllEGV6Mfq0/mV49dyEYqhHZlL7q1nIoxx9lG R1QWjBb/1/GISdQUI7ADFZs1DEIpNwbdWVHTpjqvqHvDpWfyk45hm3k8Vhbrtt3KCW FQOvpXblHi7VFHUGs3PlsXqdzjY2BPgSQyeoj6ZI4u4g9blz2bAfi2jhBKLW8kLinB PuTI4KuCDFH9g== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4GX1Cv27V2z9rxM; Sat, 24 Jul 2021 11:31:39 +0200 (CEST) Autocrypt: addr=philipk@posteo.net; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mDMEYHHqUhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAp3GdmYJ6tm5McweY6dEvIYIiry+Oz9rU4MH6NHWK0Ee0QlBo aWxpcCBLYWx1ZGVyY2ljIChnZW5lcmF0ZWQgYnkgYXV0b2NyeXB0LmVsKSA8cGhpbGlwa0Bwb3N0 ZW8ubmV0PoiQBBMWCAA4FiEEDM2H44ZoPt9Ms0eHtVrAHPRh1FwFAmBx6lICGwMFCwkIBwIGFQoJ CAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQtVrAHPRh1FyTkgEAjlbGPxFchvMbxzAES3r8QLuZgCxeAXunM9gh io0ePtUBALVhh9G6wIoZhl0gUCbQpoN/UJHI08Gm1qDob5zDxnIHuDgEYHHqUhIKKwYBBAGXVQEF AQEHQNcRB+MUimTMqoxxMMUERpOR+Q4b1KgncDZkhrO2ql1tAwEIB4h4BBgWCAAgFiEEDM2H44Zo Pt9Ms0eHtVrAHPRh1FwFAmBx6lICGwwACgkQtVrAHPRh1Fw1JwD/Qo7kvtib8jy7puyWrSv0MeTS g8qIxgoRWJE/KKdkCLEA/jb9b9/g8nnX+UcwHf/4VfKsjExlnND3FrBviXUW6NcB In-Reply-To: <83y29wywfg.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 24 Jul 2021 10:59:15 +0300") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 24 Jul 2021 07:20:37 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-tangents@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other Emacs mailing lists List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-tangents" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.tangents:688 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Philip Kaludercic >> Cc: rms@gnu.org, mullikine@gmail.com, emacs-tangents@gnu.org, >> stefan@marxist.se, bugs@gnu.support >> Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2021 07:41:21 +0000 >> >> > It cannot be a verbatim copy, because at least the variables, and >> > sometimes also the data types, need to be renamed. Whether the result >> > is still under the original copyright cannot be established without >> > actually comparing the two versions of the code. So any general >> > flat rejection of the idea of these services on these grounds is not >> > serious, IMO. >> >> Not necessarily, if it generates a pure, top-level function. Someone >> could type something like "Sort list of postcodes" and it generates a >> Radix Sort function. And if this is part of some code that was copied a >> lot, the model might tend to generate this verbatim even more likely. > > A sort function must state at least the data type before it can be > compiled. And if you are talking about pseudo-code that is data-type > agnostic, then that's an algorithm, and is not copyrightable, AFAIK. No, I was thinking about concrete code, that depending on the language might even just rely on the standard library, especially if the language has generics. Seeing how often SO code has been found in random repositories[0], I don't think it is improbable that the trained models might notice these patterns. [0] For example https://programming.guide/worlds-most-copied-so-snippet.html -- Philip Kaludercic