From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.tangents Subject: Re: Help building Pen.el (GPT for emacs) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2021 14:51:00 +0300 Message-ID: <83o8at1c63.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83im1948mj.fsf@gnu.org> <83lf642jeh.fsf@gnu.org> <83r1fp1es9.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="4092"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: stefan@marxist.se, emacs-tangents@gnu.org, mullikine@gmail.com, rms@gnu.org To: Jean Louis Original-X-From: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 23 13:51:37 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1m6tiL-0000s9-4H for get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 23 Jul 2021 13:51:37 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56200 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m6tiK-0007QK-6n for get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 23 Jul 2021 07:51:36 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46530) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m6ti6-0007Q7-Mg for emacs-tangents@gnu.org; Fri, 23 Jul 2021 07:51:22 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:46954) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m6ti6-0005ya-85; Fri, 23 Jul 2021 07:51:22 -0400 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:2157 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m6ti0-0002II-1X; Fri, 23 Jul 2021 07:51:16 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from Jean Louis on Fri, 23 Jul 2021 14:32:00 +0300) X-BeenThere: emacs-tangents@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other Emacs mailing lists List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-tangents" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.tangents:665 Archived-At: > Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2021 14:32:00 +0300 > From: Jean Louis > Cc: mullikine@gmail.com, stefan@marxist.se, emacs-tangents@gnu.org, > rms@gnu.org > > > That's not what happens with these services: they don't _copy_ code > > from other software (that won't work, because the probability of the > > variables being called by other names is 100%, and thus such code, if > > pasted into your program, will not compile). What they do, they > > extract ideas and algorithms from those other places, and express them > > in terms of your variables and your data types. So licenses are not > > relevant here. > > According to online reviews chunks of code is copied even verbatim and > people find from where. That cannot be true. It is nonsense to copy unrelated code into a program and tell people this is what they should use. > If code compiles or not is irrelevant. If one runs it or not is also > irrelevant, code need not even run. A feature or service that is based on this idea will never fly, believe me. Which program would want to have code pasted into his/her program that would cause compilation errors or, worse, break it at run time? > I do not believe that any of the AI-s so far "extract ideas". I never > heard of it. Which algorithms is there on this planet that may extract > idea? That's a very general question, it is impossible to answer it in a post to a mailing list. If you are really interested, you will have to read up on that. But you are wrong in your beliefs. > If newly generated code is modification from other code, what we know > now that it is, and is based on, that requires licensing > attributions. Once again, your assumptions are all wrong, so your conclusions are also wrong. Why not try one of these services and see what they actually do, before you pass your (quite harsh) judgment on them, and on the modern state of AI in general? > That licenses are relevant one can see from online discussions related > to Github Copilot: That people ask these questions and discuss this doesn't mean the problem is real. many people don't really understand what copyright means and how to apply it to program code. People also ask questions about the GPL, and there's a vociferous group of people who think the copyright assignment of code to the FSF means you give up all your rights in the code you've written. None of that is true, but still the rumors and the heated discussions go on and on. Their existence proves nothing, except that some people misunderstand something.