From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.tangents Subject: Re: [ELPA] New package: repology.el Date: Sat, 09 Jan 2021 10:54:21 +0200 Message-ID: <838s92ij7m.fsf@gnu.org> References: <834kjslexq.fsf@gnu.org> <83pn2fkiv5.fsf@gnu.org> <26475995-EEB8-4B71-8B06-A7B7B4C8A737@gnu.support> <834kjrk3ox.fsf@gnu.org> <83y2h3ij23.fsf@gnu.org> <83pn2fi5i7.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="27417"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-tangents@gnu.org, bugs@gnu.support, ulm@gentoo.org, ams@gnu.org, arthur.miller@live.com, dgutov@yandex.ru To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 09 09:54:37 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kyA17-00070t-23 for get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 09 Jan 2021 09:54:37 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41894 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kyA15-0006CY-Ij for get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 09 Jan 2021 03:54:35 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47360) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kyA0w-0006CO-0x for emacs-tangents@gnu.org; Sat, 09 Jan 2021 03:54:26 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:56914) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kyA0u-0006nQ-EY; Sat, 09 Jan 2021 03:54:24 -0500 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:2482 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kyA0l-0008B6-GJ; Sat, 09 Jan 2021 03:54:15 -0500 In-Reply-To: (message from Richard Stallman on Sat, 09 Jan 2021 01:41:21 -0500) X-BeenThere: emacs-tangents@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other Emacs mailing lists List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-tangents" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.tangents:552 Archived-At: > From: Richard Stallman > Cc: bugs@gnu.support, emacs-tangents@gnu.org, ulm@gentoo.org, > ams@gnu.org, arthur.miller@live.com, dgutov@yandex.ru > Date: Sat, 09 Jan 2021 01:41:21 -0500 > > > I want help them because I don't see how these references cause any > > damage to the Free Software cause. Promoting non-free software and > > inviting users to use it is indeed against our cause, but just telling > > where it's stored isn't. > > Telling people that the package _exists_ is what we want to avoid. I'm quite sure this is a misguided effort. For example, there's no reason not to tell them it exists, if you at the same time tell them it's non-free and urge them to use a free replacement instead. Thus, the urge to avoid divulging this information is not absolute, and we should talk about when it's okay and when it isn't, instead of flatly refusing to divulge the information as an absolute principle. > > I don't think the GNU project is about concealing information. I hope > > it isn't. > > The information is available to the public without our help, so > we are not concealing it. But we have no obligation to go out > of our way to spread the word. Having a single package that works with a single site is a far cry from going out of our way. Let's not exaggerate, please. > > Not mentioning a program does nothing towards eliminating it, > > Actually it does, sometimes. If we avoid mentioning a program we > avoid recruiting more users for it. That's an assumption, and I don't think it's true in this era of abundance of information. > That can eventually contribute to its elimination. That's another assumption, which I think is even less true. I could argue the opposite: by not mentioning such a program we leave the field to those who will promote it and lure users to use it. Whereas if we do mention it and say that it's non-free or has other issues (like spying on its users) we allow the users to make better decisions regarding its use. > The point is, it avoids leading people to use that program. But it does that badly, if it ever does. > A nonfree program denies freedom to its users. If we lead a person > to use the nonfree program, we lead per to surrender freedom to it. > Therefore we try to avoid that. I'm not arguing for leading people towards using such programs. I'm saying that pretending they don't exist is a very inefficient strategy, to say the least, towards the goal of leading users away from them.