From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alexandre Garreau Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.tangents Subject: why conflict [Was: Re: no to war in Ukraine] Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2022 16:22:31 +0100 Message-ID: <5132354.M1jKaovQIP@galex-713.eu> References: <87ee3p4xn4.fsf@zoho.eu> <87czj7gpyp.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="nextPart5550111.cLks1dgpyb" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="28679"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Max Brieiev , emacs-tangents@gnu.org To: Jean Louis Original-X-From: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Feb 28 16:23:08 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nOhrg-0007Ew-Ci for get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2022 16:23:08 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55456 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nOhre-0006wz-Pd for get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2022 10:23:06 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:35226) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nOhrG-0006wj-Dv for emacs-tangents@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2022 10:22:42 -0500 Original-Received: from [2a00:5884:8305::1] (port=41922 helo=galex-713.eu) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nOhrE-0005tC-BX for emacs-tangents@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2022 10:22:42 -0500 Original-Received: from gal by galex-713.eu with local (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1nOhr6-00Dss8-9T; Mon, 28 Feb 2022 16:22:32 +0100 In-Reply-To: X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 2a00:5884:8305::1 (failed) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:5884:8305::1; envelope-from=galex-713@galex-713.eu; helo=galex-713.eu X-Spam_score_int: -10 X-Spam_score: -1.1 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-tangents@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other Emacs mailing lists List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-tangents" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.tangents:791 Archived-At: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --nextPart5550111.cLks1dgpyb Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > And that would imply that Putin is really mad men and is now coming to > attack Ukraine for which real reason? You tell us please. Because russians are so tired of him and he=E2=80=99s getting old and afrai= d of loosing control, so=20 he launches his last card and plays everything in. Ukraine, along with Finland and Sweden (which he threatened too) are worryi= ng=20 counterexample of liberalism and better situation to most of russians. And= most of=20 russians are aware of this. Moreover: speaking russian in ukraine is easy, many people understand russi= an there (I=20 keep hearing that russian propaganda stating people are being threatened fo= r speaking=20 russian there is wrong, from mostly russians leaving there; and to have mos= tly spoke=20 russian myself in ukraine i can confirm); if a russian moves there, not onl= y they can keep=20 speaking their language, but they can most easily learn the local one as it= is most similar,=20 pretty easy and even somewhat more regular and rational. So that WAS a really nice place, and the easiest one, for russians to escap= e. The conflict=20 since its beginning (before war) is itself is a mere excuse to avoid that t= o happen (as=20 russian men has been forbidden to go there before). There is to some degre= e hypocrit=20 collaboration between russian and ukrainian elites (who btw both have stake= s and=20 properties and capital in each others=E2=80=99 country) for that sake: arti= ficially separating as much=20 as possible two countries with so friendly and similar people with each oth= er. There have=20 been, on both side, support to the far right, neonazis, etc. A lot more so= from putin=E2=80=99s side:=20 most of the far rights and neonazis are funded by him in Europe. French fa= r right is backed=20 by Putin. Hungary and Poland, worst situations in europe, are because of P= utin. Our=20 increasing commitment to methane, because of our abandonment of carbonclean= nuclear=20 (and also the subsequent increasing reliement on coal) is also Putin=E2=80= =99s fault. This is not only=20 threatening Russia, Ukraine, Europe, but the whole planet=E2=80=99s citizen= s. That was okay as long as it only meant for ukraine to give up on helping an= d welcoming=20 russians. Now it=E2=80=99s not enough anymore. The internet is making the= people increasingly=20 powerful and aware of whatever freedom exists elsewhere and they could get. The same sospokenabout situation of =C2=ABif we lower taxes the powerfuls a= re gonna escape=C2=BB=20 is there happening inversely: if you help the powerful, the actual people w= ill see it and=20 wanna leave. This always have been true, it is called migration. Migratio= n is a threat to=20 oppression, and border its solution: a threat to freedom. Free circulation= of wealth good to=20 the wealthiests and their wealth, free circulation of people good to the pe= ople and their=20 freedom. Wars, soldiers, militaries, aggressions, these all reinforce borders. What inspired me mostly: https://nitter.fdn.fr/jmkorhonen/status/1496047631= 969234944[1]=20 Please remember we have to keep in favor of freedom, and that means against= aggression,=20 against censorship, surveillance, proprietary software. If you ever feel t= hese could locally=20 or temporarily used to fight oppression, you are tricked. =2D------- [1] https://nitter.fdn.fr/jmkorhonen/status/1496047631969234944 --nextPart5550111.cLks1dgpyb Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" PGh0bWw+CjxoZWFkPgo8bWV0YSBodHRwLWVxdWl2PSJjb250ZW50LXR5cGUiIGNvbnRlbnQ9InRl eHQvaHRtbDsgY2hhcnNldD1VVEYtOCI+CjwvaGVhZD4KPGJvZHk+PHAgc3R5bGU9Im1hcmdpbi10 b3A6MDttYXJnaW4tYm90dG9tOjA7bWFyZ2luLWxlZnQ6MDttYXJnaW4tcmlnaHQ6MDsiPiZndDsg QW5kIHRoYXQgd291bGQgaW1wbHkgdGhhdCBQdXRpbiBpcyByZWFsbHkgbWFkIG1lbiBhbmQgaXMg bm93IGNvbWluZyB0bzwvcD4KPHAgc3R5bGU9Im1hcmdpbi10b3A6MDttYXJnaW4tYm90dG9tOjA7 bWFyZ2luLWxlZnQ6MDttYXJnaW4tcmlnaHQ6MDsiPiZndDsgYXR0YWNrIFVrcmFpbmUgZm9yIHdo aWNoIHJlYWwgcmVhc29uPyBZb3UgdGVsbCB1cyBwbGVhc2UuPC9wPgo8YnIgLz48cCBzdHlsZT0i bWFyZ2luLXRvcDowO21hcmdpbi1ib3R0b206MDttYXJnaW4tbGVmdDowO21hcmdpbi1yaWdodDow OyI+QmVjYXVzZSBydXNzaWFucyBhcmUgc28gdGlyZWQgb2YgaGltIGFuZCBoZeKAmXMgZ2V0dGlu 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