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From: Alexandre Garreau <galex-713@galex-713.eu>
To: Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support>
Cc: Max Brieiev <max.brieiev@gmail.com>, emacs-tangents@gnu.org
Subject: why conflict [Was: Re: no to war in Ukraine]
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2022 16:22:31 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <5132354.M1jKaovQIP@galex-713.eu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <YhzAmRDGQpCARhFn@protected.localdomain>

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> And that would imply that Putin is really mad men and is now coming to
> attack Ukraine for which real reason? You tell us please.

Because russians are so tired of him and he’s getting old and afraid of loosing control, so 
he launches his last card and plays everything in.

Ukraine, along with Finland and Sweden (which he threatened too) are worrying 
counterexample of liberalism and better situation to most of russians.  And most of 
russians are aware of this.

Moreover: speaking russian in ukraine is easy, many people understand russian there (I 
keep hearing that russian propaganda stating people are being threatened for speaking 
russian there is wrong, from mostly russians leaving there; and to have mostly spoke 
russian myself in ukraine i can confirm); if a russian moves there, not only they can keep 
speaking their language, but they can most easily learn the local one as it is most similar, 
pretty easy and even somewhat more regular and rational.

So that WAS a really nice place, and the easiest one, for russians to escape.  The conflict 
since its beginning (before war) is itself is a mere excuse to avoid that to happen (as 
russian men has been forbidden to go there before).  There is to some degree hypocrit 
collaboration between russian and ukrainian elites (who btw both have stakes and 
properties and capital in each others’ country) for that sake: artificially separating as much 
as possible two countries with so friendly and similar people with each other.  There have 
been, on both side, support to the far right, neonazis, etc.  A lot more so from putin’s side: 
most of the far rights and neonazis are funded by him in Europe.  French far right is backed 
by Putin.  Hungary and Poland, worst situations in europe, are because of Putin.  Our 
increasing commitment to methane, because of our abandonment of carbonclean nuclear 
(and also the subsequent increasing reliement on coal) is also Putin’s fault.  This is not only 
threatening Russia, Ukraine, Europe, but the whole planet’s citizens.

That was okay as long as it only meant for ukraine to give up on helping and welcoming 
russians.  Now it’s not enough anymore.  The internet is making the people increasingly 
powerful and aware of whatever freedom exists elsewhere and they could get.

The same sospokenabout situation of «if we lower taxes the powerfuls are gonna escape» 
is there happening inversely: if you help the powerful, the actual people will see it and 
wanna leave.  This always have been true, it is called migration.  Migration is a threat to 
oppression, and border its solution: a threat to freedom.  Free circulation of wealth good to 
the wealthiests and their wealth, free circulation of people good to the people and their 
freedom.

Wars, soldiers, militaries, aggressions, these all reinforce borders.

What inspired me mostly: https://nitter.fdn.fr/jmkorhonen/status/1496047631969234944[1] 

Please remember we have to keep in favor of freedom, and that means against aggression, 
against censorship, surveillance, proprietary software.  If you ever feel these could locally 
or temporarily used to fight oppression, you are tricked.

--------
[1] https://nitter.fdn.fr/jmkorhonen/status/1496047631969234944

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  parent reply	other threads:[~2022-02-28 15:22 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 55+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <87ee3p4xn4.fsf@zoho.eu>
     [not found] ` <trinity-91ab7da3-86cd-454a-9b41-e6b6d4bf5fbb-1645957364271@3c-app-mailcom-bs09>
     [not found]   ` <YhtX4C9E9JWWw3Ar@tuxteam.de>
2022-02-27 11:27     ` no to war in Ukraine Alexandre Garreau
     [not found] ` <7f8b6dc4-a621-2ab4-86ab-79325a1f2a0c@yandex.ru>
     [not found]   ` <95a64961-9a77-bd7a-a4c2-77ae3f9e5bb7@rixotstudio.cz>
2022-02-27 11:45     ` Alexandre Garreau
2022-02-27 12:02       ` Jacob Hrbek
2022-02-27 13:51       ` Jean Louis
2022-02-28 12:01         ` Max Brieiev
2022-02-28 12:31           ` Jean Louis
2022-02-28 14:58             ` Alexandre Garreau
2022-02-28 16:59               ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-02-28 15:22             ` Alexandre Garreau [this message]
2022-02-28 16:27               ` why conflict [Was: Re: no to war in Ukraine] Emanuel Berg via Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other Emacs mailing lists
2022-03-01 14:28                 ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other Emacs mailing lists
2022-03-01 22:44                   ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other Emacs mailing lists
2022-03-02  1:08                   ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other Emacs mailing lists
2022-03-01  6:01               ` Jean Louis
2022-03-01  8:43                 ` Max Brieiev
2022-03-01  9:52                   ` Jean Louis
2022-03-01 15:19                     ` Max Brieiev
     [not found]                 ` <12751820.zrU1mtMFnZ@galex-713.eu>
2022-03-01  9:24                   ` Jean Louis
2022-03-01 16:22                     ` War is bad " dick
2022-03-01 17:05                 ` why conflict " Alfred M. Szmidt
2022-02-28 14:42         ` no to war in Ukraine Alexandre Garreau
2022-03-01  7:27           ` Jean Louis
2022-03-01 14:34             ` Alexandre Garreau
2022-02-28 12:12     ` Yuri Khan
2022-02-28 12:17       ` Jacob Hrbek
2022-02-28 13:08         ` Jean Louis
2022-02-28 12:43       ` Jean Louis
     [not found]   ` <YhyTqSvVkyfQCDtX@protected.localdomain>
     [not found]     ` <87ilszw2go.fsf@zoho.eu>
2022-02-28 14:26       ` Jean Louis
2022-02-28 14:47         ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other Emacs mailing lists
2022-03-01  9:16           ` Jean Louis
     [not found] ` <6365757.nJ7RtekbVj@galex-713.eu>
     [not found]   ` <87fso47mzt.fsf@yahoo.com>
     [not found]     ` <5568043.OSE0SheIR2@galex-713.eu>
2022-02-28  9:26       ` Jean Louis
     [not found] ` <87tucl18rp.fsf@zoho.eu>
     [not found]   ` <3cf3a903-10fb-76e4-24f8-d2e48d045f5c@rixotstudio.cz>
     [not found]     ` <YhyTBXF/DpCMCn7t@protected.localdomain>
     [not found]       ` <bb25e38f-6ecc-ac8d-0d35-140c07261369@rixotstudio.cz>
2022-02-28 12:15         ` Po Lu
2022-02-28 13:34           ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other Emacs mailing lists
2022-02-28 15:29             ` Max Brieiev
2022-02-28 18:05               ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other Emacs mailing lists
2022-03-01  9:34                 ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other Emacs mailing lists
     [not found]         ` <44446637.PyEFFFD7HL@galex-713.eu>
     [not found]           ` <E1nOu3v-0003Ks-Le@fencepost.gnu.org>
     [not found]             ` <87r17myqla.fsf@zoho.eu>
2022-03-01 10:06               ` Po Lu
2022-03-01 14:05                 ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other Emacs mailing lists
     [not found]     ` <87ee3p17tx.fsf@zoho.eu>
     [not found]       ` <87zgmauhq3.fsf@mat.ucm.es>
2022-03-01 12:59         ` Jean Louis
2022-03-01 17:39           ` Uwe Brauer
2022-03-02  1:19             ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other Emacs mailing lists
2022-03-06  1:03               ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other Emacs mailing lists
     [not found]             ` <Yh+0Yr6xR78m2oCI@protected.localdomain>
     [not found]               ` <87bkykh9gp.fsf@mat.ucm.es>
2022-03-06  9:49                 ` Jean Louis
2022-03-06 14:09                   ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                     ` <87cziz80qo.fsf@mat.ucm.es>
2022-03-07 15:35                       ` Jean Louis
2022-03-08 18:12                         ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other Emacs mailing lists
2022-03-08 20:11                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-03-08 20:21                             ` Tom Davey
     [not found]         ` <EAjmMNeUzREHnpDz8VZpnOxTwMc2X9YKqrOOQB3Oph0rTO0nFy_Il2V2tTz9NtmN9WV3TGHq90WTDoLt3a_pmvOUv7QFjSgYR4QK6ClGNe0=@protonmail.com>
     [not found]           ` <875yoyymr8.fsf@zoho.eu>
2022-03-01 13:02             ` Jean Louis
2022-03-01 14:08               ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other Emacs mailing lists
     [not found]         ` <87a6eaymxw.fsf@zoho.eu>
2022-03-01 13:05           ` Jean Louis
2022-03-01 14:10             ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other Emacs mailing lists
2022-03-01 17:09             ` Alfred M. Szmidt
     [not found] ` <5fa3d9eb-0912-2243-829c-53595c73b517@rixotstudio.cz>
     [not found]   ` <kW4bkuyHMKUIN1qW4z4vWh8ieAkysxjdii6-drbCMr8kxk89jjwSiFCc5zFkK8bRFpFzJTJ_KV2sGS5ON2Beq8QWX_iCx_cdoAWB_e43Uqw=@protonmail.com>
2022-03-01 15:52     ` Alexandre Garreau
2022-03-01 16:11       ` goncholden

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