From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alexandre Garreau Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.tangents Subject: Re: no to war in Ukraine Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2022 12:45:44 +0100 Message-ID: <5050033.Gxf8NU8Bx7@galex-713.eu> References: <87ee3p4xn4.fsf@zoho.eu> <7f8b6dc4-a621-2ab4-86ab-79325a1f2a0c@yandex.ru> <95a64961-9a77-bd7a-a4c2-77ae3f9e5bb7@rixotstudio.cz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="nextPart10161598.TZO2hRLeCJ" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="14548"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-tangents@gnu.org, Dmitry Gutov To: Jacob Hrbek Original-X-From: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Feb 27 12:51:50 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nOI5e-0003dk-91 for get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2022 12:51:50 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40122 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nOI5d-0002Kb-9a for get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2022 06:51:49 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:54532) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nOHzz-0000LT-Es for emacs-tangents@gnu.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2022 06:45:59 -0500 Original-Received: from [2a00:5884:8305::1] (port=40850 helo=galex-713.eu) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nOHzx-0007dG-2w for emacs-tangents@gnu.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2022 06:45:59 -0500 Original-Received: from gal by galex-713.eu with local (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1nOHzk-00CEbC-Ri; Sun, 27 Feb 2022 12:45:48 +0100 In-Reply-To: <95a64961-9a77-bd7a-a4c2-77ae3f9e5bb7@rixotstudio.cz> X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 2a00:5884:8305::1 (failed) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:5884:8305::1; envelope-from=galex-713@galex-713.eu; helo=galex-713.eu X-Spam_score_int: -10 X-Spam_score: -1.1 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 27 Feb 2022 06:51:31 -0500 X-BeenThere: emacs-tangents@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other Emacs mailing lists List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-tangents" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.tangents:774 Archived-At: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --nextPart10161598.TZO2hRLeCJ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I=E2=80=99m redirecting this part of thread to tangent because this doesn= =E2=80=99t have anything to do with=20 emacs but with psychological solidarity (we all need to help each other the= most possible=20 during these times) with our community (and although it indeed is help to g= nu emacs=20 users=E2=80=99 it=E2=80=99s so=E2=80=A6 tangentially!) Le diman=C4=89o, 27-a de februaro 2022, 12-a horo kaj 18:28 CET Jacob Hrbek= a =C3=A9crit : > > There is a lot of Free Software written by Russians that you are are > >=20 >=20 > almost certainly using. Maybe not entirely but at least in part. -- > Gutov =20 > I am slav with lot of russians and ukrainians friends you can't even=20 > imagine how much this hurts me to do this as someone who loves and uses >=20 > Free Software in everything and who hates restrictions on privacy and > freedom and who is endlessly appreciate of all the work that russian > citizens did for Free Software and for me like all the helping that i > got with issues including kindness of submitting a patches for a > problems that i had, because I feel fucking sick and guilty, my mental > health is in absolute shit and i didn't sleep for more then 3 hours a > day since the war started blaming myself for all the work that i've > done on Free Software and in Free Software Activism in the last ~14 > years, because my work in Free Software contributed to the capability > of russian military to do this war to bomb cities full of my brothers > and sisters, killing newborns, children, elderly and committing war > crimes against unarmed citizens scared for their life who are hiding at > their homes. That=E2=80=99s true not only for you but for any technical, scientifical, e= conomical, etc. progress,=20 unfortunately. We can=E2=80=99t control everything=E2=80=A6=20 And I believe (if that can help) in the end the main and maybe almost only = responsible is=20 Putin, everyone else was lied to or threatened. > > And not all of us support this terrible, unjust war. There are=20 >=20 > anti-war protests all around the world, including Moscow and=20 > Saint-Petersburg. -- Gutov >=20 > Russian citizens have a major role in this war i know the cost of=20 > opposing putin in russia some of my family even experienced it first=20 > hand in what happened before the Velvet Revolution in Czechia, but it's > no where near the cost that ukrainians are paying right now. That=E2=80=99s likely right, but asking people sacrificing to people far aw= ay is difficult, especially=20 when a such war would have been difficult to predict in advance, and totall= y=20 ununderstandable once it happened=E2=80=A6 it=E2=80=99s totally useless shi= t=E2=80=A6 Putin has just got mad. Also I believe to suffer standing for freedom is somewhat easier psychologi= cally than sitting=20 in despair giving up=E2=80=A6 Ukrainians are showing great pride and attach= ment to their freedom,=20 although in front of nato lack of help it would have been more logical to s= urrender in front=20 of a higher power=E2=80=A6 And during that time russians soldiers entering ukraine are discovering the= y were lied to=20 and that ukrainians are freeer than them. Some ukrainians already surrende= d (which, in=20 front of bigger country, with no help, i can understand), but we still have= to wait for the=20 inevitable time a great part of russian army will surrender too. It=E2=80= =99s been almost all days=20 since first day that almost no progress have been made by them, although ru= ssia is so=20 much more enormous and rich than ukraine, and has so many military capabili= ties. This is=20 rejoying. i don=E2=80=99t understand why nato doesn=E2=80=99t take the risk being bom= bed to help ukrainians. =20 Ukrainians are not bombed right now, and I don=E2=80=99t believe the risk t= o be unjustly and=20 exageratedly bombed is worth the cost of not being able to stand for freedo= m. It would be=20 also interesting to learn how ineffective, unreliable, old, etc. has the ru= ssian nuclear=20 bombing program got. If wide enough, it must implies many operators, and m= any of them=20 must be able to circumvent censorship to discover they must disobey and sav= e us too. > Please go join them and please convince others to do the same. The whole > world supports ukrainians and the whole world will support russians > overthrowing that war criminal in moscow, but there has to be more > people doing the protests and calling on the russian forces to oppose > their leader to do it. I=E2=80=99m part of those increasing number of ppl believing protests are g= etting more and more=20 useless as people forgot what to do next, and leaders acknowledged that=E2= =80=A6 What should be needed would be to send material help there, money, maybe ev= en to rob=20 the states and rich in each country for that, and for russians to block any= thing materially=20 providing for russian army or state controlled medias=E2=80=A6 --nextPart10161598.TZO2hRLeCJ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"

I=E2=80=99m redirecting this part of thread to tangent because this does= n=E2=80=99t have anything to do with emacs but with psychological solidarit= y (we all need to help each other the most possible during these times) wit= h our community (and although it indeed is help to gnu emacs users=E2=80=99= it=E2=80=99s so=E2=80=A6 tangentially!)


Le diman=C4=89o, 27-a de februaro 2022, 12-a horo kaj 18:28 CET Jacob Hr= bek a =C3=A9crit :

>= ;  > There is a lot of Free Software written by Russians that you a= re are

>= ;  >

>= ;

>= ; almost certainly using. Maybe not entirely but at least in part.=C2=A0 --=

>= ; Gutov

&nb= sp;

>= ; I am slav with lot of russians and ukrainians friends you can't even

>= ; imagine how much this hurts me to do this as someone who loves and uses

>= ;

>= ; Free Software in everything and who hates restrictions on privacy and

>= ; freedom and who is endlessly appreciate of all the work that russian

>= ; citizens did for Free Software and for me like all the helping that i

>= ; got with issues including kindness of submitting a patches for a

>= ; problems that i had, because I feel fucking sick and guilty, my mental

>= ; health is in absolute shit and i didn't sleep for more then 3 hours a

>= ; day since the war started blaming myself for all the work that i've

>= ; done on Free Software and in Free Software Activism in the last ~14

>= ; years, because my work in Free Software contributed to the capability

>= ; of russian military to do this war to bomb cities full of my brothers

>= ; and sisters, killing newborns, children, elderly and committing war

>= ; crimes against unarmed citizens scared for their life who are hiding at

>= ; their homes.


That=E2=80=99s true not only for you but for any technical, scientifical= , economical, etc. progress, unfortunately.  We can=E2=80=99t control = everything=E2=80=A6


And I believe (if that can help) in the end the main and maybe almost on= ly responsible is Putin, everyone else was lied to or threatened.


>  > And not all of us support this terrible, unjust war. The= re are

>= ;

>= ; anti-war protests all around the world, including Moscow and

>= ; Saint-Petersburg. -- Gutov

>= ;

>= ; Russian citizens have a major role in this war i know the cost of

>= ; opposing putin in russia some of my family even experienced it first

>= ; hand in what happened before the Velvet Revolution in Czechia, but it's

>= ; no where near the cost that ukrainians are paying right now.


That=E2=80=99s likely right, but asking people sacrificing to people far= away is difficult, especially when a such war would have been difficult to= predict in advance, and totally ununderstandable once it happened=E2=80=A6= it=E2=80=99s totally useless shit=E2=80=A6 Putin has just got mad.


Also I believe to suffer standing for freedom is somewhat easier psychol= ogically than sitting in despair giving up=E2=80=A6 Ukrainians are showing = great pride and attachment to their freedom, although in front of nato lack= of help it would have been more logical to surrender in front of a higher = power=E2=80=A6


And during that time russians soldiers entering ukraine are discovering = they were lied to and that ukrainians are freeer than them.  Some ukra= inians already surrended (which, in front of bigger country, with no help, = i can understand), but we still have to wait for the inevitable time a grea= t part of russian army will surrender too.  It=E2=80=99s been almost a= ll days since first day that almost no progress have been made by them, alt= hough russia is so much more enormous and rich than ukraine, and has so man= y military capabilities.  This is rejoying.


i don=E2=80=99t understand why nato doesn=E2=80=99t take the risk being = bombed to help ukrainians.  Ukrainians are not bombed right now, and I= =C2=A0don=E2=80=99t believe the risk to be unjustly and exageratedly bombed= is worth the cost of not being able to stand for freedom.  It would b= e also interesting to learn how ineffective, unreliable, old, etc. has the = russian nuclear bombing program got.  If wide enough, it must implies = many operators, and many of them must be able to circumvent censorship to d= iscover they must disobey and save us too.


> Please go join them and please convince others to do the same. The = whole

>= ; world supports ukrainians and the whole world will support russians

>= ; overthrowing that war criminal in moscow, but there has to be more

>= ; people doing the protests and calling on the russian forces to oppose

>= ; their leader to do it.


I=E2=80=99m part of those increasing number of ppl believing protests ar= e getting more and more useless as people forgot what to do next, and leade= rs acknowledged that=E2=80=A6


What should be needed would be to send material help there, money, maybe= even to rob the states and rich in each country for that, and for russians= to block anything materially providing for russian army or state controlle= d medias=E2=80=A6

--nextPart10161598.TZO2hRLeCJ--