From: Andrea Corallo <acorallo@gnu.org>
To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: My resignation from Emacs development
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2024 08:39:59 -0500 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <yp1v7wgln80.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Zz38jvRRsSi_6C7U@MAC.fritz.box> (Alan Mackenzie's message of "Wed, 20 Nov 2024 15:13:18 +0000")
Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> writes:
> Hello, Emacs.
>
> I'm resigning my position as Emacs contributor.
>
> The immediate reason is that, as maintainer of CC Mode, CC Mode's
> symbols, its names, were taken by Emacs and used for other purposes
> without informing me, much less consulting me. That makes my position as
> CC Mode maintainer here untenable.
>
> Eli Zaretskii and I have had extensive discussions, both in public and in
> private email, over the last week or so, but we have been unable to reach
> any satisfactory compromise solution.
>
> Names are important. They have power. To take somebody's/somthing's
> name and misuse it is an exercise of aggression. Try using "Emacs" or
> even "free software" to mean something different, and see just how
> quickly you would hear back from Richard Stallman. This misuse of CC
> Mode's "trademarks", the symbols `c-mode', `c++-mode', and perhaps
> `c-or-c++-mode', is just such an act of aggression.
>
> These symbols have been appropriated by Emacs to mean "the current
> preferred mode for C", etc., rather than C Mode, C++ Mode etc. In
> certain circumstances, in particular, in Local Variables: sections and
> auto-mode-alist, there is now no longer any way unambiguously to specify
> C Mode or C++ Mode. Up till recently ("\\.myc\\'" . c-mode) in
> auto-mode-alist meant C Mode, and would have had the effect of
> auto-loading CC Mode, if needed, and running C Mode.
>
> The change took place in the commit for bug#69191 "New var
> `major-mode-remap-defaults`, for packages". It sounds so innocent, but
> is an extremely bad solution for whatever problem (unspecified in the
> commit message) it was intended to solve. A major mode using it changes
> the interfaces of other libraries in an uncontrolled way. This is not
> good software engineering.
>
> This bug was raised and committed by Stefan Monnier. Despite the fact
> that the bug fix directly impinged upon CC Mode, and there was even a
> change to cc-mode.el in the patch, he failed even to inform me. The only
> two modes substantially affected by this change were ruby-mode and CC
> Mode, and it is clear that Dmitry Gutov, maintainer of ruby-mode, was
> aware of the change. Had I known of this proposal, I would certainly
> have objected to it. Stefan is intelligent enough to have realised this,
> and maybe his avoidance of open discussion was motivated by this.
>
> Bug#69191 was a big change. In Emacs, we have a convention whereby big
> changes are discussed openly on emacs-devel and a consensus reached
> before the change is made. Stefan Monnier has regularly violated this
> convention, possibly believing that his ideas for Emacs are so good as to
> be beyond question. Any attempt to question his ideas is likely to be
> met by evasive non-answers, if any response at all is forthcoming. I
> could give several paragraphs worth of justification for these
> assertions, but I think everybody here knows I am right.
>
> In Emacs there is also a convention of treating eachother with respect on
> the mailing lists. Sadly this convention is superficial, and seems only
> to mean things like not using swear words. The truly contemptuous
> communication style, this evasive non-answering, seems to be regarded as
> acceptable. I suggest that this change.
>
> Stefan's habit of making big changes in Emacs without seeking consensus
> is at the heart of why I am resigning. These changes have caused Emacs a
> lot of damage over the years and have caused other contributors,
> including me, extra work and difficulty. Stefan is a Jekyll-and-Hyde
> character. On the one hand, he's a very capable hacker, and is always
> ready to help others with technical questions. On the other hand, as
> mentioned, he is contemptuous of the Emacs conventions, and unlike
> Richard and Eli, does not have the gift of knowing what the Right Thing
> is.
>
> I strongly recommend that Stefan somehow be reigned in and required to
> observe Emacs's conventions about open discussion and courteous
> communication. As I mentioned, his violations of these are at the core
> of why I feel unable to continue contributing to Emacs.
>
> I will shortly be unsubscribing from emacs-devel. I intend to carry on
> maintaining stand alone CC Mode, and I'm prepared to deal with any CC
> Mode issues which arise in Emacs. Please post these to
> bug-cc-mode@gnu.org.
>
> It just remains to say that my respect for Eli and the other maintainers
> remains undiminished, and that I wish all of them and the Emacs project
> all success in the future.
>
> --
> Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
Hi Alan,
I don't have much to add as I share all Eli's and Stefan's opinions
here.
I as well don't agree with your critic of S.M. actions, but more
importantly, please assume always good faith from other Emacs developers
(as suggested here [1]). Our goal here of just making a better Emacs,
this is shared by every one, and would be a pity to loose your
contribution.
Please reconsider your position, sometimes stress and other factors can
tweak our conclusion momentary, but let's not forget our goals.
Thanks
Andrea
[1] <https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/kind-communication.html>
prev parent reply other threads:[~2024-11-21 13:39 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 20+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2024-11-20 15:13 My resignation from Emacs development Alan Mackenzie
2024-11-20 15:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-20 16:23 ` Christopher Dimech
2024-11-21 6:22 ` Gerd Möllmann
2024-11-21 10:05 ` Christopher Dimech
2024-11-21 11:23 ` Gerd Möllmann
2024-11-21 11:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-21 10:29 ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-11-21 12:26 ` Christopher Dimech
2024-11-20 16:42 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2024-11-20 17:04 ` tomas
2024-11-20 21:56 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-11-21 2:28 ` Stefan Kangas
2024-11-21 12:34 ` Tree-sitter maturity (was: My resignation from Emacs development) Peter Oliver
2024-11-21 13:01 ` My resignation from Emacs development Alan Mackenzie
2024-11-21 13:48 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-21 14:29 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2024-11-21 16:29 ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-11-21 5:59 ` Gerd Möllmann
2024-11-21 13:39 ` Andrea Corallo [this message]
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