From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Yann Hodique Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Adding advisory notification for non-ELPA package.el downloads Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2017 20:04:42 -0700 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1499570376 17147 195.159.176.226 (9 Jul 2017 03:19:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2017 03:19:36 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.2 (darwin) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jul 09 05:19:32 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dU2kr-00042M-UM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 09 Jul 2017 05:19:30 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34746 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dU2kv-00073J-Ld for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 08 Jul 2017 23:19:33 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36765) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dU2kI-00073C-Pp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Jul 2017 23:18:55 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dU2kF-0007ED-H5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Jul 2017 23:18:54 -0400 Original-Received: from [195.159.176.226] (port=36009 helo=blaine.gmane.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dU2kF-0007Am-Ag for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Jul 2017 23:18:51 -0400 Original-Received: from list by blaine.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dU2k4-0001k6-AH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 09 Jul 2017 05:18:40 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 67 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAAXNSR0IArs4c6QAAACpQTFRF HBgXPyYdPSkeMiwmRkJBYT4sik8zZF1XqWpMx2RDk42MzYRYtrGw09DVySZyaAAAAklJREFUOMuF 0z9v00AUAPCHr/kANgowOi6hjFbOCImp1CdF6kaUCwEmkBJSdYmUSBZRGRMsske1MlKIFKVr5XAr U1TPSFX6XXjvnKp2KOLG97v3x3dnuP7Hgv/B+vLyLlivZkGwSP6GlXABvHmyDese0GIn2zBzNYCX bEGagOswycG6ewMsyMEVVTJMiyQHv2lzuTOSNrDPWfhF8FSpuGXt5IB6s6bCNfLOt8FoEMT1JAv7 wFz25E7gtqFLqS856IJhl481/MyN27tnGe+wc1uprzn4fvS+MFYxwvDtLcyT1Y9oUhyri3ZHtTIg B7NP0WmDMo7VcJABKRvRtKNbq3hxC21ZKx2pMAWVgQt5H95MNSynKnMfZTzTQkSwjKLpPAN1H+CB zogmYaa5ED7eUzMeY+tw9HqRAcEBnoUhxYfFQZIBelRNhGjSKj6cb14kBH3hY5dCGI+XpzXTebzJ gY+CC47FHiGENQdXVfeBuvA55y5eYRgOnTJRdXC+6eFTiiHbHyplKVGoHGDQw1okzi5BCcUbXANn KL4WYAeyZJomJu0l4ALKZvlCvkrBOaG3dhOvdtlLjJt6AP2UN3DosoppOhr20v+Cwq4ncE8JwaLB gJpyPa/n0mQIJn0m0EExTHE5HgxUHAvnsjT41ARTnu8juAaUML5bSQHn8vkLBGYDUCkLS+tD577H qwjcpl8Le+BmIWgnHkrgws5BCvjTMbpaAsHPcK6+jXNhLfqGQND4XHhn4Ik5T8HCzKu+Bk98qwq+ 6AFOimPZ8Aem5xXrk2gG/wAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== Cancel-Lock: sha1:eNC2kpL8Hmsxn9crZTca3L1e+PM= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 195.159.176.226 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:216352 Archived-At: >>>>> "Clément" == Clément Pit-Claudel writes: > On 2017-07-07 21:59, John Wiegley wrote: >> I have a feeling that a lot of package authors choose MELPA because >> the barrier to entry is so low, and they may not realize how easy it >> is to get it into Emacs as well. > It's not that they doesn't realize how easy it is: it's that it's > not easy. > Getting into MELPA requires a writing a one-line Lisp form and > submitting it for inclusion. Getting into ELPA requires subtle git > invocations that end up mashing up the history of your project with > that of tens of others, while fearing to break the entire ELPA repo > because of a missing copyright line in a test file. > And ELPA makes maintaining the package more painful, too: picking out > the commits made by others and copying them on your personal repo > requires further arcane git invocations — same for importing new > commits from your personal repo. And of course you lose other MELPA > goodies, like getting download statistics. > For now, the main motivation to publish on ELPA is ideological — not > practical. My feeling is that package authors chose not to publish on > ELPA because they get all they need from MELPA, for a fraction of the > invested time. +1 I'd also like to add a few things: - some package authors *do not* choose MELPA, MELPA chooses them. Most of my packages are in MELPA without me ever asking for it, it's just that somebody else cared enough. - let's not trivialize the act of assigning copyright. It's *not* a neutral action (if it was, it wouldn't be required...), and it's definitely *not* only about signing some paper. For many people it involves researching whether it's actually meaningful or legal to do so, depending on their country of citizenship and/or residence. In some cases it means selling the idea to their employer (who frequenly is the default copyright owner of all their work) which can easily be met with scepticism and resistance from legal departments: personally it took me more than 2 months to complete that particular conversation, just because it's a highly unusual request and people didn't understand what was the need. Bottom-line there are legal implications beyond licensing to doing so (which is again the whole point), and that can never be as simple as handling licensing alone. I would consider it quite misleading if those aspects were glossed over: I fear that would only encourage people to sign without understanding what it's about. Proactively contacting elisp developers to ask them if they would consider a copyright assignment (mentioning the benefit of potential bundling with Emacs, along with the rest of the implications) seems much more OK to me. my 2¢ Yann. -- It is your fate, forgetfulness. All of the old lessons of life, you lose and gain and lose and gain again. -- Leto II, the Voice of Dar-es-Balat