From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Andrea Corallo Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proper namespaces in Elisp Date: Thu, 07 May 2020 06:13:21 +0000 Message-ID: References: <237fe643-c14d-5406-b35d-a30dcd42c5ed@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="14038"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.3 (gnu/linux) Cc: nic@ferrier.me.uk, =?utf-8?Q?Cl=C3=A9ment?= Pit-Claudel , emacs-devel , Stefan Monnier , Helmut Eller To: =?utf-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu May 07 08:14:32 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jWZnj-0003Y1-2e for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 07 May 2020 08:14:31 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50090 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jWZni-0005d1-4t for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 07 May 2020 02:14:30 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47458) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jWZnC-0005CL-MM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 May 2020 02:13:58 -0400 Original-Received: from mx.sdf.org ([205.166.94.20]:49905) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jWZnB-00037q-Ai for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 May 2020 02:13:58 -0400 Original-Received: from sdf.org (ma.sdf.org [205.166.94.33]) by mx.sdf.org (8.15.2/8.14.5) with ESMTPS id 0476DN2n008986 (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO); Thu, 7 May 2020 06:13:23 GMT Original-Received: (from akrl@localhost) by sdf.org (8.15.2/8.12.8/Submit) id 0476DL45025879; Thu, 7 May 2020 06:13:21 GMT In-Reply-To: (=?utf-8?Q?=22Jo=C3=A3o_T=C3=A1vora=22's?= message of "Wed, 6 May 2020 20:48:30 +0100") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=205.166.94.20; envelope-from=akrl@sdf.org; helo=mx.sdf.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/07 02:13:50 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = ??? X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:249151 Archived-At: Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora writes: > On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 8:07 AM Andrea Corallo wrote: > >> No, what I suggested is to split symbols from bindings because only >> these seconds are the ones causing name clashes. > > AFAIK your argument goes like this: CL packages are a bad > idea because, when you use them like this other system that is > not CL packages, they don't work like you want. This is circular. > It will infloop this thread. No my argument is: I think behavior B (the CL one) is not optimal because X, I'd like more behavior A. I don't see any circularity into that from my side. > This is why I encouraged you to study it, because you presented > an odd example that seemed to indicate you didn't know > understand how quoting works inside package. I apologize. Thanks. > You _could_ have said you that some other namespacing system > X is also _sufficient_ for the problems we're trying to solve right > now and then proceeded to justify that. E.g. you could say X is > easier to implement, is faster at x-time (where x =3D run/compile/ > read), has a less verbose interface, fries omelets, etc. I think that's what I did decribing behavior A. I may come-up one day with a prototype to play and discuss with if I find the time. I guess would be more interesting and effective in highlighting pros or flaws of this. Andrea --=20 akrl@sdf.org