From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Andrea Corallo via "Emacs development discussions." Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: A proposal for a friendlier Emacs Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 21:26:28 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4be18b5f-dc07-2703-a2de-1ed08916ebdf@gmail.com> <3774c435-60d6-a958-77d1-a831599c85c5@gmail.com> Reply-To: Andrea Corallo Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="24966"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.3 (gnu/linux) Cc: stefankangas@gmail.com, nicola.manca85@gmail.com, thibaut.verron@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: ams@gnu.org (Alfred M. Szmidt) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 19 23:28:14 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kJkP0-0006Ow-4N for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 23:28:14 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48360 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kJkOz-0007zb-7I for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 17:28:13 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:48252) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kJkNR-000776-Sd for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 17:26:40 -0400 Original-Received: from mx.sdf.org ([205.166.94.24]:59157) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kJkNL-0002g6-9c; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 17:26:35 -0400 Original-Received: from mab (ma.sdf.org [205.166.94.33]) by mx.sdf.org (8.15.2/8.14.5) with ESMTP id 08JLQS86020541; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 21:26:28 GMT In-Reply-To: (Alfred M. Szmidt's message of "Sat, 19 Sep 2020 17:04:51 -0400") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=205.166.94.24; envelope-from=akrl@sdf.org; helo=mx.sdf.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/19 15:32:01 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = ??? X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:256221 Archived-At: ams@gnu.org (Alfred M. Szmidt) writes: > > What is lost exactly? You have the _exact_ same information, plus > > some (that of a on-click setup). Having a special new-user dialog > > would be a loss in information since it would hide the splash screen > > which provides valuable information for new and old users alike. > > > > If users don't read the normal splash screen, there is no reason to > > expect them to look at another "setup screen". > > I suspect they probably don't read it because there is too much > information already, adding more would just make it worst. > > If the few paragraphs on the splash screen are deemed "too much > information" then why would they read any other page?! > > Lets not assume that users are that lazy ... IMO is quite a realistic scenario, so I'll assume that. > > I claim that opening Emacs on new accounts with no .emacs will be > > infrequent for most users. > > > > Just today I accessed four different machines where I had never logged > > in (mainly for development stuff, where the machines run different > > operating systems, often new VMs setup for whatever). Sometimes it is > > accessing the machine as root, sometimes it is as my self. > > Which _exact_ part of the spash screen have you used in this process? > > Visit new file and Open Home Directory. > > How this proposed menu would have made harder your job today? Apologies wanted to write buffer. > We are talking about the splash screen, not a menu. The suggestion > (as I understood it) was to replace the splash screen with a wizard if > and only if there was no .emacs (or similar). Then do magic to > somehow keep track if a user had "picked" a provided configuration > (vanilla, different, or configuration wizard) of Emacs. Only then, > would you get the current splash screen when you start emacs. > > That is a strange behaviour, and very much annoying one to keep track > of. Sorry I have hard time imaging experienced users regularly using the splash screen to open files, I find surprising this is your experience.